Plummer terriers

[JR Yipp 111]

Glenn if you read back through you will see that I have asked two questions and both seem to have been ignored...?

One was are you saying that Vandal wasn't a Plummer?

And the other was how many foxes have YOU taken in the last season with YOUR terriers?

Thanks

Sorry to have missed this one but not ignored, wondered what bill was on about my sincere apologies, mark.

 

Vandal, was he a Plummer with 28% vampire blood a halfbred jrt.? Plummer.. he and others then for PR purposes was named plummer terriers as were so many but they were not true breeding enough to be called a breed...others bred more true as well...but then when you consider vandals pedigree, how could they have been when the fathers sire was crossbred and the rest of the pedigree mongrelized. Offspirng from vandal sometimes resembled other breeds a sign of homozygosity . AS DID MANY ..AS I SADI BEFORE THEY WERE INGREDIENTS ...Brian himself bred variables by the dozen due to homozygosity I had one .

 

Name me any of Brians dogs ever that have no other breed blood in them for more than 4 generations ..you will find none.

 

His famous vampire halfbred 50% jrt minimum

Omega 37% jrt

One of the last dogs he bred nailer over 28% jrt numerous jrt and fells in just 4 generations .

 

 

As for Fox work none no need foxes dont take my fish.the water must be to cold for them,or snorkels interfere with there senses lol.

 

Would be nice to have some local foxes to play with but to tell you the truth they aren't numerous enough here due to keepers and digging foxes and taken piccys of the reults is a sad macho thing i grew out of.

 

If i encounter one then great (prefer hunting the rat and used to love mink hunting with my pack but thats illegal now !! :sick: )but seeking out earths on a wet sunday morning digging great big holes in the ground to see me terrier working a fox not really my scene anymore as i said before bin there done that in my youth. Prefer others who work there dogs to prove my lines instincts.

 

 

There's no art to fox work had terriers at hunt service and with loners who give me feed back..and as stated before have had a recent report my x stud now a pet lost to ground on foxy loxy. Infact his son tylos was to ground for 2 hours at a fox. The lad dug him out and gave the fox best. Good enough for me the dog though bred from many none earth dogs did what he thought was right...nearly cost the lad his dog mind but thats a different story. And in true irish fashion promtly lined his patterdale with him !!

 

 

you say it like youve gone on to better things, chasing rats anyone can do and as for running about on river banks pretending to be a huntsman blowing a tooter (badly) to keep a few expensive jack russells up togther, pull me other one. mink hunting is an art form, just needs to be done properly.

 

have fun with what your doing but dont drag the true art of the terrier down with your secoundary sports and nonsense ramblings.

 

 

"gone on to better things" not really just prefer to see my terrier use there noses,, this is why i hunt with my local beagle pack. Running about on the river bank my tooter ..oh you are rude ..nope again im not double jointed.

 

Wheres the sceinec and art in watching an instincitive dog do its work ..its natural to chase and worry prey ..art form get out... control of a pack is skillfull but letting a terrier off the lead near a hole stinking of fox and digging to the noise is art ..dont make me laf ..cave men did it ..and as you see the above picture of stig of the dump above we aint gone to far.

 

I have had my moments with my pack some real good long runs at mink and have treed many ...killed a few and lost a few ..whatched upteen youngsters come on and learn and seen some fantastic noses working .

 

Secondary sport lol..IN YOUR VIEW. which we are all forced to belive is only the correct form of terrier work.Some peolpe like a bit of variety wheres the harm in that?

 

 

ok then, staright up offer, i will bring my dogs to hunt your rats and mink, perhpas i will tree a few, retrive a few and loose a few and no doubt will have fun trying. (i did terrier work for a mink pack for several seaosn so know the criac) and you can bring your dogs somwhere on permission and work some foxes. 3 independant judges of work, style and just for you artistic flair.

 

i think we would soon find which is the better sport.

 

incidently i know ALOT of hunt terriermen and only once have i heard of one having a plummer (which he liked), i do not doubt your claims as i dont know them all but in terms of a claim to fame and to add prestigue to your dogs... laughable.

 

ive seen a video of you hunting mink with your pack....... best i leave it there and hope your better on the foxes.

 

Again no thanks why does everyone think im out to want to prove my dogs working ability like i keep saying im happy.... get over it!Vidoe clips from a phone camera of a marking pack ..not what id call a full version of events lol.

 

thats what i thought, all yapp!

 

head so far up your own ass you dont know what youve done. it was not off a mobile, infact i should think it was before mobiles had cameras...... perhaps you should be more careful.

[stormyboy 1,352]

Check out the pedigree ... pedigree says it all...PR ONLY MATE PR ONLY BACK THEN.

 

 

When did the plummer become the plummer EXACTLY?

[EPTR 4]

glen,I could never presume to tell someone as important as you how to run the breed,you have'nt gave one credible answer to any point raised,I don't know what colour the sky is in your strange self obsessed egotistical world you must live in,wrapped up from reality,my dad had words for people like yourself,"a man among women,a child among men"that saying just about cover's you,whoever made you secretary of some phoney club?probably yourself?its a working home every time for my pups,not women and first timer's,the sad part is that you don't see any problem in selling to these people,I look forward to meeting you at a show or country fair so that you can put a face to my name,I shall introduce myself then I won't be an anonymous terrierman anymore as I will of met the famous glen welsby, ha,ha,LOL,weak men like yourself always surround themseves with yes men(or your case women) and kids,if by some chance you bang your head and wake up to reallity with the genuine future of this breed in mind we may hear of decent worker's,remember credibility and renown for the breed should be paramount,not some ego trip by one man,reputations are given by other people, not yourself ,wirralman

 

Its nice to know that there are so many peolpe willing to give such great advise to me on a subject "they know absoulty nothing about!".

 

EVERYONE CAN CURE A KICKING HORSE EXCEPT THE OWNER LOL

 

It's rare site to see me at any game fairs they are usually attended by assumption makers of the anonymous expert kind ..bit like yourself, so I dont bother going, besides which i dont show me dogs (thought you might like that twang ) to busy watching them use there noses on scent..cant beat it.

 

My dad (a farrier) ..had a saying to "beware the five legged horse " never quite understood that... bit like your expertese on marketing the plummer terrier ..seems i have been following quiet abit of your advise for some years now..greta minds must think alike .

 

PS have been getting soem strange pms from peeps who have quiet alot to say about you recently..so i may be ignoring you from now on ..please dont feel offeneded.

 

PPS Brian requested I became regsitrar of the PTA and i was elected chairman of the epts ..and not worried about my name being posted .wink wink nudge nudge

[EPTR 4]

there IS an art to working terriers. although many dont take it far enough to understand that. your knowledge of plummer bloodlines is undeniable. but you show your igmorance on working terriers. many terriers will work instinctivly. we had a fox terrier to ground a few years ago. but that doesnt say they are a good bet for terrierwork. the border terrier and the parson terrier are fast going down the shitter i had a well bred parson that was a very good grafter but he produced very little the reason was his blood was to diluted. you dont need em to work instinkivly you need them to work well and to be able to produce terriers that work well. the instinct was bred in and is easily bred out. i dont do a lot of digging i prefare to bolt foxes. and let me assure you there is an art to that alone breeding workers is difficult enough. as is rearing and entering a youngster building its confidence over a couple of seasons before giving it its head. then you need to find work for the dogs not easy in this day and age i could go on and on.but i would be i have no axe to grind with anyone but some of the things you say boil my pish.

 

saw this lad at a dog show the other day thought i would put it up as it is everything i like in a terrier

 

 

 

Could'nt have said it better bar the "ignorance " and "is art " bits... which again shows assumptutions about me good self...as for the picture ..cracks me up that ....stance ugg! captain cave man !

[EPTR 4]

Kisses to all night night!

[stormyboy 1,352]

WHEN EXACTLY DID THE PLUMMER TERRIER BECOME THE PLUMMER TERRIER? A ludicrous question i know but no more ludicrous than your boasting. Still resorting to the personal shit in the absence of reasonable debate i see.

 

BTW Plummer soon realised what a mistake he made re the pta.

 

Answer please-EXACTLY WHEN?

[DUCKWING 302]

WELL LADS ,

 

I HONESTLY THINK THIS FELLA WAS DROPPED ON HIS HEAD AS A BABY ..........

 

THERES OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING QUITE WRONG WITH HIM AND I FOR ONE WONT MOCK THE AFFLICTED

 

 

MAYBE TIME TO LEAVE THIS LEGEND IN HIS OWN MIND TO HIS OWN LITTLE WORLD

 

 

DUCKWING

[wirral countryman 2,110]

surely every terrierman/woman has been a first timer at some stage. and if every one that bred terriers never sold, ( sorry gave) a terrier pup to a first timer, pretty soon terriermen and the working the working terrier as we know it, would be no more. surely every terrierman/woman deserves the chance to prove themself, as does evey dog????????

 

 

paul I agree that some dogs have to go to first timer's/women,but only a percentage,lads that will give the breed a better reputation among terriermen(worker's) should also be catered for ,there is no need to go blindly down one road and forsake all other's,overpricing plummer pups is what keeps the pups going to the wrong people,the average terrierman is not going to pay daft money for a pup that might work a bit when he can go and buy a pup from a known working breed that is more or less guarranteed,and for a lot less money.I don't need a piece of paper with pta or KC registered to work my dog and that is what matter's to most,its through work that genuine recognition is obtained,atb,wirralman

[poacher3161 1,766]

Going off subject abit do these plummer terriers throw the odd rough coated ones as those D.B.P left behind [bANNED TEXT] he left s.yorks were rough haired but one i saw was a similar coulour to those of today.

[Moorman 1 1,325]

Glenn if you read back through you will see that I have asked two questions and both seem to have been ignored...?

One was are you saying that Vandal wasn't a Plummer?

And the other was how many foxes have YOU taken in the last season with YOUR terriers?

Thanks

Sorry to have missed this one but not ignored, wondered what bill was on about my sincere apologies, mark.

 

Vandal, was he a Plummer with 28% vampire blood a halfbred jrt.? Plummer.. he and others then for PR purposes was named plummer terriers as were so many but they were not true breeding enough to be called a breed...others bred more true as well...but then when you consider vandals pedigree, how could they have been when the fathers sire was crossbred and the rest of the pedigree mongrelized. Offspirng from vandal sometimes resembled other breeds a sign of homozygosity . AS DID MANY ..AS I SADI BEFORE THEY WERE INGREDIENTS ...Brian himself bred variables by the dozen due to homozygosity I had one .

 

Name me any of Brians dogs ever that have no other breed blood in them for more than 4 generations ..you will find none.

 

His famous vampire halfbred 50% jrt minimum

Omega 37% jrt

One of the last dogs he bred nailer over 28% jrt numerous jrt and fells in just 4 generations .

 

 

As for Fox work none no need foxes dont take my fish.the water must be to cold for them,or snorkels interfere with there senses lol.

 

Would be nice to have some local foxes to play with but to tell you the truth they aren't numerous enough here due to keepers and digging foxes and taken piccys of the reults is a sad macho thing i grew out of.

 

If i encounter one then great (prefer hunting the rat and used to love mink hunting with my pack but thats illegal now !! :sick: )but seeking out earths on a wet sunday morning digging great big holes in the ground to see me terrier working a fox not really my scene anymore as i said before bin there done that in my youth. Prefer others who work there dogs to prove my lines instincts.

 

 

There's no art to fox work had terriers at hunt service and with loners who give me feed back..and as stated before have had a recent report my x stud now a pet lost to ground on foxy loxy. Infact his son tylos was to ground for 2 hours at a fox. The lad dug him out and gave the fox best. Good enough for me the dog though bred from many none earth dogs did what he thought was right...nearly cost the lad his dog mind but thats a different story. And in true irish fashion promtly lined his patterdale with him !!

 

 

Theres no art to fox work,a bold statement indeed.By saying that it shows that you have never done it to any standard.Glenn the fox is the only legal quarry that you can truly test your offspring on.You say that you have been there and done that now grown out of it.Several years back you said to me that you hadn't really done any earthwork as you couldn't find foxes around your way,which also says a lot for you as a working terrierman.

Everyone has different standards.As I said in an earlier post some say their dogs work and only take two or three a season,and others may take a hundred.I have seen many terriers look good for a few digs then when the workload gets a bit heavier throw the towel in.I have seen many terriers put out to a hunt and never get worked properly.A lot of people seem to think that hunt work is the ultimate thing, but I can honestly say that some of the worst standards of terrierwork that I have ever witnessed were hunt terriermen.

Glenn I really fail to see why anyone would farm a dog out to give it work.I would want to enter the young dogs myself, to make sure that it was done what I would call properly and I would want to witness them at their work so that I could judge them for myself and not take other peoples words for it as I have said we all have different ideas.

How do you know the stud was lost to ground on a fox?Did they get the fox out?

The other lad you say he dug the fox and give it best?Did he or couldn't he get the fox with the dog?If you were working them yourself you would know these things firsthand.

There seems to be an awful lot of Plummers lost and assumed lost whilst heroically working a fox,(Proteous) being one.You say Tylos was 2 hours to ground on a fox good enough for me.So are you rating the dog as good enough for you as in to breed from?After 2 hours on a fox,he could have been stuck or blocked himself in.As I have said many look good even for a season then quit.It is a shame that the Plummers are no longer being properly tested as there were and probably are still some that are very good foxdogs.I actually had one myself.I have also dug many times to some of Vandals offspring and still do on occassions.Some of the best earthworking Plummers came from Bills kennels. I just wish that he was still producing his stuff.A mate of mine had a daughter of Vandal and mated her back to her sire and all the progeny from that mating were outstanding in the ground and as good a terriers as I have seen on fox.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Moorman 1

[EPTR 4]

WHEN EXACTLY DID THE PLUMMER TERRIER BECOME THE PLUMMER TERRIER? A ludicrous question i know but no more ludicrous than your boasting. Still resorting to the personal shit in the absence of reasonable debate i see.

 

BTW Plummer soon realised what a mistake he made re the pta.

 

Answer please-EXACTLY WHEN?

 

Your so easily offended as ive said before.

 

WHEN exactly BLAH BLAH...this issues could go on forever ..boring

 

lets say it was when you say so .... or how about when the ace (mike reid's ) vandal produced his first litter for you 27.5.93 eh!to that leika thing you had at the time...there now you have a plummer terrier date of conception ..but i best not post the picys up as you may be alarmed ..as it dont resemble a plummer ..then why would it when it has 12.5% fox terrier and over 35% russell blood..shame about the legs to cripples dont bolt foxs do they

 

 

"boasting" where exactly is that boasting sure its facts you dont like to hear bill.

 

 

 

As for Plummer making a mistake with the pta i have ..vidoe proof of him praising the club and a written letter of thanks ...so again your a little bit behind the times...about 20 odd years

 

What are you working now Bill???..come on lets see the piccys??..weres the descendants of the pack now ....still down there at lands end bill if you have some good stuff about thats well marked has less than 3% fox terrier and vcan actuly walk without opertaions..then we could do with a new breeder

[pointer 543]

Going off subject abit do these plummer terriers throw the odd rough coated ones as those D.B.P left behind [bANNED TEXT] he left s.yorks were rough haired but one i saw was a similar coulour to those of today.

[/quote.]

 

This one saw some earthwork but her coat was rubbish,she looked like a miniture rough collie.There were a few times in snowy freezing conditions when she had icicles hanging off her,it was ridiculous.If it hadnt been for the coat id have kept her myself.Her brother in the pic had a good thick smooth jacket.

I wouldnt think there will be many like her around now,i also saw crappy coats from terriers bred down from Gena.No good in cold,wet weather.

[stormyboy 1,352]

There you go again-nothing constructive just childish insults. No your highness you dont offend me-childish shite from someone with nothing constructive to say. this- and that- sums you up. smoke and piss.

 

If you cannot answer my simple question,then dont. I thought you had all the answers-obviously not.

 

What am i working? A collie lucher. OK with you?

[stormyboy 1,352]

Still no answer i see. Obviously off thinking up some more spiteful vitriol-more smoke and piss.

 

YOU WILL PROVE ME RIGHT YET AGAIN WELSBY-YOUR NEXT POST AIMED AT ME WILL BE NOTHING BUT SPINELESS INSULTS FROM BEHIND YOU COMPUTER.

 

THAT HAS BEEN MY ENTIRE POINT THROUGHOUT-YOU HAVE AN UNCONTROLLABLE NEED TO SHOW THE WORLD HOW GREAT YOU ARE AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THIS IS TO THROW CHILDISH INSULTS AT PEOPLE TO TRY AND BELITTLE THEM.

NEWSFLASH-PEOPLE DONT GIVE A f**k!

If you need to insult my dogs to make yourself feel better,knock yourself out. Ive never claimed to be gods gift to plummers-thats your job.

Another favourite.........Next! I think DUCKWING hit the nail on the head-no pun intended.

 

You are sounding more desperate with each post...........see paragraph 2...........

 

Still no credible answer.....says it all.

Edited June 9, 2010 by stormyboy

[EPTR 4]

Still no answer i see. Obviously off thinking up some more spiteful vitriol-more smoke and piss.

 

YOU WILL PROVE ME RIGHT YET AGAIN WELSBY-YOUR NEXT POST AIMED AT ME WILL BE NOTHING BUT SPINELESS INSULTS FROM BEHIND YOU COMPUTER.

 

THAT HAS BEEN MY ENTIRE POINT THROUGHOUT-YOU HAVE AN UNCONTROLLABLE NEED TO SHOW THE WORLD HOW GREAT YOU ARE AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THIS IS TO THROW CHILDISH INSULTS AT PEOPLE TO TRY AND BELITTLE THEM.

NEWSFLASH-PEOPLE DONT GIVE A f**k!

If you need to insult my dogs to make yourself feel better,knock yourself out. Ive never claimed to be gods gift to plummers-thats your job.

Another favourite.........Next! I think DUCKWING hit the nail on the head-no pun intended.

 

You are sounding more desperate with each post...........see paragraph 2...........

 

Still no credible answer.....says it all.

 

Such language.terrible....and ...its "WELSBY" now is it ..ooowww :sick: .

 

Insults at your dogs where? are they insults or do you not like the truthfull facts? MOSSMAN

 

If you take the facts as insults then tough...some take facts on the chin (i have done a few times) and work around them like we (us dedicated breeders of the clubs ) had to do and get on and try and mend what was broken..not give in and cry and shout and swear when someone pionts them out, in due course.

 

Whats with the upper case shouting lol give it a rest .

 

As for answers about .."when exactly does a plumemr blah " then like i said whenever you feel it was, as whatever i say you will have a poke .

 

As this seems to be your main aim to poke, as many have done so far.

 

"Gods gift to plummers".. thanks Bill .. but thats not me, unless of course you say it is...as disagreeing seems to make you upset...and shout and swear.

 

Lurchers ..so no plummer terriers then Mossman ..and you have the gaul to go on like this ....