airgunner vs airgun world

[J Darcy 5,871]

Not worth the tree thats cut down to make the paper its printed on!!!! The hunts are boring to say the least and there same things are in both mags at the same time.!!! I used to love it when John Darling wrote forn them, tsles of his hw 35E were great, but the people filling the mag now i dont think have much of a clue. They are still writing about putting owl decoys out for the odd "rogue" maggie!!!!

[Coney 3]

I dispute that anyone other than the industry find these magazines helpful. They make bad products look great and with the same mild approach to everything, they cover, just wastes paper and generates income for them. They're out to make money by selling stuff.

 

If anyone here needs advice then get to know your local gunshop staff. They answer questions everyday and most of them are shooters. They test the latest gear and aren't funded by any particular company so they'll tell it straight. Their advice is free and walking to the shop is no different than walking to the newsagents.

 

I've tested alot of gear in my years of airgunning and the best advice I received was from shooters not from salesmen. Salesmen publish magazines. Shooters hang around with other shooters and meet up at gun shops.

 

I would never ever trust a magazine for an unbiased view of any product sold in the UK. Shooting is an expensive hobby and it cost me alot of money to learn that not everything is as great as the magazines will have you believe. Deal with shooters. Not with journalists. Their path is different from yours.

 

Well said Chris.

[Deker 3,478]

I dispute that anyone other than the industry find these magazines helpful. They make bad products look great and with the same mild approach to everything, they cover, just wastes paper and generates income for them. They're out to make money by selling stuff.

 

If anyone here needs advice then get to know your local gunshop staff. They answer questions everyday and most of them are shooters. They test the latest gear and aren't funded by any particular company so they'll tell it straight. Their advice is free and walking to the shop is no different than walking to the newsagents.

 

I've tested alot of gear in my years of airgunning and the best advice I received was from shooters not from salesmen. Salesmen publish magazines. Shooters hang around with other shooters and meet up at gun shops.

 

I would never ever trust a magazine for an unbiased view of any product sold in the UK. Shooting is an expensive hobby and it cost me alot of money to learn that not everything is as great as the magazines will have you believe. Deal with shooters. Not with journalists. Their path is different from yours.

 

 

 

Both the magazines in question are far from perfect but this response criticises itself and is very nieve.....

 

The bloke behind the counter of your gun shop IS a salesman, he will sell and promote what he carries and has in stock. This is NOT an unbiased honest opinion, it is about making money! And just in case you hadn't already noticed many people are very reluctant to say they bought a pup (human nature) they didn't make a mistake, their gun etc is brilliant..."but now I have a bit more money I can afford to upgrade" It's called the real world, we all make mistakes, we all learn, some faster than others!

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Both the magazines in question are far from perfect but this response criticises itself and is very nieve.....

 

The bloke behind the counter of your gun shop IS a salesman, he will sell and promote what he carries and has in stock. This is NOT an unbiased honest opinion, it is about making money! And just in case you hadn't already noticed many people are very reluctant to say they bought a pup (human nature) they didn't make a mistake, their gun etc is brilliant..."but now I have a bit more money I can afford to upgrade" It's called the real world, we all make mistakes, we all learn, some faster than others!

Since John Darling died there hasn't been a decent airgun journalist. He was the exception that proved the rule. I've used airguns for over 20 years and tested products for 15 of them. I'm certainly not naive when it comes to the airgun industry, it's shooters and it's salesmen.

 

The bloke behind the counter of your local gun shop is indeed a salesman. But he's independent. His business and his reputation are built on his quality of service. Most gun shops are started by enthusiasts. They're staffed by enthusiasts and attract enthusiasts. They stock products that they know about. They research their gear, like most enthusiasts do. The best part of all is that other enthusiasts hang around there. They share tips and information. They usually offer free and helpful advice to new shooters and customers that come in because they love to promote and share the sport that they love.

 

None of that is replicated in the magazines.

 

I've never met any friends through the airgun press. I've been ripped off through the airgun press. I've been lied to through the airgun press and I've lost thousands and thousands of pounds over the years buying equipment I've been told was industry changing only to find it was a bag of shite before selling it on at a considerable loss. I never had the benefit of an airgun forum, when I started out, to gain any advice whatsoever so I started through trial and error.

 

When I started visiting my local gun shop I found them incredibly helpful. Like someone had turned the light on in a darkened room. Yes they were selling stuff (hence shop) but their advice wasn't pinned to any particular manufacturer or company. Yes they advised buying certain products but I've never heard a bad review about the HW77 or the TX200. I also started meeting other shooters, at these gun shops. They'd spend hours of their own time, in the off season, chatting and drinking tea. Telling anyone who would listen why Chinese air rifles are shit and shouldn't be bought despite regularly receiving high marks in the airgun press.

 

Yes we all make mistakes. I still do on a regular basis. I've owned dozens of shit rifles. I've shot thousands and thousands of good, average and shit pellets through dozens more loaned/owned rifles, to test their durability, performance, and accuracy. Why? Because I'm a shooter first and foremost and I want my gear to work first time. Not spend a lamping trip arsing around with a rifle magazine that jams and ruins what precious little time I have in the field.

 

The point is that you can minimise these mistakes by researching your gear and making as an informed decision as you possibly can. Airgun magazines aren't that informed decision. Your local gun shop may not be perfect but it's several more rungs up a really shitty ladder. I tell it like I see it. I owned a B2 Pioneer and it was the worst £35 I spent on a rifle. I don't want anyone to make the same mistakes I did so I'll tell people that the rifle was shit, in my opinion. They're made by Chinese convicts and aren't anything like the FULL POWER that the airgun magazines will tell you. I own a Webley Stingray carbine that I paid around £100 for. I think it's awesome. It's around 11.5 ft/lbs, it's paid for itself a dozen times over, with the amount of rabbits it's taken and I recommend them to anyone that doesn't want to spend £8-900 on a full Logun set up because airgun journalists say you can't catch rabbits with anything else. I don't work in the gun trade so I'm not selling you anything. We have an airgun forum on the Hunting Life. It's free to use and nobody is being pressured into buying anything. Like with all other opinions, they're just that but I'd rather have free advice that is written by other shooters than pay £3.50 for a glorified catalogue.

 

Opinionated? Definitely?

 

Naive? Definitely not!

[Deker 3,478]

Both the magazines in question are far from perfect but this response criticises itself and is very nieve.....

 

The bloke behind the counter of your gun shop IS a salesman, he will sell and promote what he carries and has in stock. This is NOT an unbiased honest opinion, it is about making money! And just in case you hadn't already noticed many people are very reluctant to say they bought a pup (human nature) they didn't make a mistake, their gun etc is brilliant..."but now I have a bit more money I can afford to upgrade" It's called the real world, we all make mistakes, we all learn, some faster than others!

Since John Darling died there hasn't been a decent airgun journalist. He was the exception that proved the rule. I've used airguns for over 20 years and tested products for 15 of them. I'm certainly not naive when it comes to the airgun industry, it's shooters and it's salesmen.

 

The bloke behind the counter of your local gun shop is indeed a salesman. But he's independent. His business and his reputation are built on his quality of service. Most gun shops are started by enthusiasts. They're staffed by enthusiasts and attract enthusiasts. They stock products that they know about. They research their gear, like most enthusiasts do. The best part of all is that other enthusiasts hang around there. They share tips and information. They usually offer free and helpful advice to new shooters and customers that come in because they love to promote and share the sport that they love.

 

None of that is replicated in the magazines.

 

I've never met any friends through the airgun press. I've been ripped off through the airgun press. I've been lied to through the airgun press and I've lost thousands and thousands of pounds over the years buying equipment I've been told was industry changing only to find it was a bag of shite before selling it on at a considerable loss. I never had the benefit of an airgun forum, when I started out, to gain any advice whatsoever so I started through trial and error.

 

When I started visiting my local gun shop I found them incredibly helpful. Like someone had turned the light on in a darkened room. Yes they were selling stuff (hence shop) but their advice wasn't pinned to any particular manufacturer or company. Yes they advised buying certain products but I've never heard a bad review about the HW77 or the TX200. I also started meeting other shooters, at these gun shops. They'd spend hours of their own time, in the off season, chatting and drinking tea. Telling anyone who would listen why Chinese air rifles are shit and shouldn't be bought despite regularly receiving high marks in the airgun press.

 

Yes we all make mistakes. I still do on a regular basis. I've owned dozens of shit rifles. I've shot thousands and thousands of good, average and shit pellets through dozens more loaned/owned rifles, to test their durability, performance, and accuracy. Why? Because I'm a shooter first and foremost and I want my gear to work first time. Not spend a lamping trip arsing around with a rifle magazine that jams and ruins what precious little time I have in the field.

 

The point is that you can minimise these mistakes by researching your gear and making as an informed decision as you possibly can. Airgun magazines aren't that informed decision. Your local gun shop may not be perfect but it's several more rungs up a really shitty ladder. I tell it like I see it. I owned a B2 Pioneer and it was the worst £35 I spent on a rifle. I don't want anyone to make the same mistakes I did so I'll tell people that the rifle was shit, in my opinion. They're made by Chinese convicts and aren't anything like the FULL POWER that the airgun magazines will tell you. I own a Webley Stingray carbine that I paid around £100 for. I think it's awesome. It's around 11.5 ft/lbs, it's paid for itself a dozen times over, with the amount of rabbits it's taken and I recommend them to anyone that doesn't want to spend £8-900 on a full Logun set up because airgun journalists say you can't catch rabbits with anything else. I don't work in the gun trade so I'm not selling you anything. We have an airgun forum on the Hunting Life. It's free to use and nobody is being pressured into buying anything. Like with all other opinions, they're just that but I'd rather have free advice that is written by other shooters than pay £3.50 for a glorified catalogue.

 

Opinionated? Definitely?

 

Naive? Definitely not!

 

 

..he will sell and promote what he carries and has in stock. This is NOT an unbiased honest opinion, it is about making money! "Actually the Tikka is great but they will not let me be a distributor, I only carry the Savage which is crap so don't buy it from me" is a line you will obviously hear all the time down your local dealer!!! Why does the Sportsman tell you the Steyr is so brilliant and push it??

You may have been around and involved in shooting for a few years but sir, you are very naive if you think the staff at your local dealers are unbiased sportsmen!!

[IanB 0]

One thing about both magazines regardless if their good or bad, they help begiinners with an interest in the sport ... same goes with the countrymans weekly, EDRD, etc we are better with them than without them thats for sure..

[ChrisJones 7,975]

..he will sell and promote what he carries and has in stock. This is NOT an unbiased honest opinion, it is about making money! "Actually the Tikka is great but they will not let me be a distributor, I only carry the Savage which is crap so don't buy it from me" is a line you will obviously hear all the time down your local dealer!!! Why does the Sportsman tell you the Steyr is so brilliant and push it??

You may have been around and involved in shooting for a few years but sir, you are very naive if you think the staff at your local dealers are unbiased sportsmen!!

I've dealt with one of the north's leading airgun dealers for a long time. I've never been pushed to buy anything. Yes they stock products from air gun manufacturers ( ). That's part of the job but you make it sound like everyone is a money grabbing arse which really isn't the case at all. I will stick my neck out and say that they are unbiased sportsmen. They stock reliable products that have been tested on the range, and in the field, and are a gold mine of advice for the new shooter. This isn't naivety this is genuine support directed to the enthusiasts in the industry. They sell products because they love shooting and want to be involved with the trade on a professional basis. They will give honest opinions on products and they attract people that give honest opinions on products. That's why I deal with them. Did I become a pest controller to make money? Initially no. I wanted to do what I love, and make a few quid on the side. Lucky for me my preferred air gun dealer is of the same ethic.

 

Getting back to the topic at hand, the air gun magazines are worthless compared to decent dealers (free advice) and this forum (also free advice) and are nothing better than expensive catalogues. The irony being that most industries send out free catalogues to sell products, whereas most air gunners will pay for the glossy catalogues because they don't know any better. Air gun magazines won't introduce you to other shooters (and possibly future friends), air gun magazines won't let you test stuff to see what you think of it. Air gun magazines won't invite you out for shoots on the range or in the field. I've met enough people, through my preferred gun shop, to satisfy all of the above and I've never once been steered toward a product that wasn't already proven to kill things, quickly, humanely, and reliably.

 

There is no community in the magazines. There is around the shops. At a time when shooting is under the screws we need all the friends we can get. Air Gun World won't give you that. Ever. I can only assume that with your defence, of these magazines, is that you're a long time subscriber!

[keeper 51 78]

One thing about both magazines regardless if their good or bad, they help begiinners with an interest in the sport ... same goes with the countrymans weekly, EDRD, etc we are better with them than without them thats for sure..

i am with you reguardless of the crap they publish an awfull lot of people still purchase these mags

and they are a window into the world of shooting they may only scratch the surface but some times

this can be a good thing

we must also remember there readers can be an asset and as they are easy to poll there comments

can be read by all and there support is useful when it comes up against the anti,s

Edited February 23, 2008 by keeper 51

[ChrisJones 7,975]

can be read by all and there support is useful when it comes up against the anti,s

Did these magazines stand up in support of hunting?

[keeper 51 78]

can be read by all and there support is useful when it comes up against the anti,s

Did these magazines stand up in support of hunting?

beats me as i dont read them but one thing for shure i bet a lot of there readers did

[ChrisJones 7,975]

I've not read one for years. I know the Airgun BBS had several anti hunting posts and distanced themselves from hunters as much as they could.

 

I heard that one of the mags published an article that distanced themselves from other fieldsports, in an attempt to save their own necks. While I wouldn't put it past them I must confess that I have no evidence of this and it was pure hearsay.

[keeper 51 78]

I've not read one for years. I know the Airgun BBS had several anti hunting posts and distanced themselves from hunters as much as they could.

 

I heard that one of the mags published an article that distanced themselves from other fieldsports, in an attempt to save their own necks. While I wouldn't put it past them I must confess that I have no evidence of this and it was pure hearsay.

i hear what you say and agree with you on most of it but lets keep the shooting mags they may be

crap but they keep people interested :hmm :

[J Darcy 5,871]

Maybe they need to bring back the modern day equivelent of John Darling?

[Deker 3,478]

..he will sell and promote what he carries and has in stock. This is NOT an unbiased honest opinion, it is about making money! "Actually the Tikka is great but they will not let me be a distributor, I only carry the Savage which is crap so don't buy it from me" is a line you will obviously hear all the time down your local dealer!!! Why does the Sportsman tell you the Steyr is so brilliant and push it??

You may have been around and involved in shooting for a few years but sir, you are very naive if you think the staff at your local dealers are unbiased sportsmen!!

I've dealt with one of the north's leading airgun dealers for a long time. I've never been pushed to buy anything. Yes they stock products from air gun manufacturers ( ). That's part of the job but you make it sound like everyone is a money grabbing arse which really isn't the case at all. I will stick my neck out and say that they are unbiased sportsmen. They stock reliable products that have been tested on the range, and in the field, and are a gold mine of advice for the new shooter. This isn't naivety this is genuine support directed to the enthusiasts in the industry. They sell products because they love shooting and want to be involved with the trade on a professional basis. They will give honest opinions on products and they attract people that give honest opinions on products. That's why I deal with them. Did I become a pest controller to make money? Initially no. I wanted to do what I love, and make a few quid on the side. Lucky for me my preferred air gun dealer is of the same ethic.

 

Getting back to the topic at hand, the air gun magazines are worthless compared to decent dealers (free advice) and this forum (also free advice) and are nothing better than expensive catalogues. The irony being that most industries send out free catalogues to sell products, whereas most air gunners will pay for the glossy catalogues because they don't know any better. Air gun magazines won't introduce you to other shooters (and possibly future friends), air gun magazines won't let you test stuff to see what you think of it. Air gun magazines won't invite you out for shoots on the range or in the field. I've met enough people, through my preferred gun shop, to satisfy all of the above and I've never once been steered toward a product that wasn't already proven to kill things, quickly, humanely, and reliably.

 

There is no community in the magazines. There is around the shops. At a time when shooting is under the screws we need all the friends we can get. Air Gun World won't give you that. Ever. I can only assume that with your defence, of these magazines, is that you're a long time subscriber!

 

 

No No No No......where have you been for the last few months...........and you need to read my original post here again...

 

First off it is absolutely correct that both are from the SAME stable and lets be frank, both carry a lot of the "same" stuff!

 

Much has been said and much is correct, we live in a commercial world, but I have to admit reviews of everything in living memory only achieving a 9 out of 10 at the absolute worst do not inspire a great deal of confidence.

 

What many of you forget is that you now have a lot of experience, it is obvious from many posts on THL that many do not, and would find both of these magazines useful.

 

Life changes, our knowledge changes and our expectations change , but we all started somewhere.

 

You were the one who brought up the dealers, perhaps you can explain why when I go to one of them who is an impartial unbiased sportsman who sells BSA he will tells me they are the best, the next sells, Theoben and they are the best, the next Ripley and they are the best, the next Air Arms and so on and so on. I have NEVER walked into a dealer and he has said X, Y or Z is the best but we don't sell them, the best is ALWAYS a make they have a dealership for! You do NOT get an honest unbiased opinion from your local gun dealer!

[ChrisJones 7,975]

No No No No......where have you been for the last few months...........

Let's start here then... I've been away. I'm Chris, by the way, glad to make your acquaintance.

 

and you need to read my original post here again...

 

First off it is absolutely correct that both are from the SAME stable and lets be frank, both carry a lot of the "same" stuff!

 

Much has been said and much is correct, we live in a commercial world, but I have to admit reviews of everything in living memory only achieving a 9 out of 10 at the absolute worst do not inspire a great deal of confidence.

 

What many of you forget is that you now have a lot of experience, it is obvious from many posts on THL that many do not, and would find both of these magazines useful.

 

Life changes, our knowledge changes and our expectations change , but we all started somewhere.

The highlighted bit was the bit I disputed, and still do.

 

Agreed though this is where it went off on a tangent but that's what opinion boards do. Y'see someone calls me naive and I kinda go off on one, because I'm not. As the profile says, I'm an opinionated twat, but I'm not naive.

 

You were the one who brought up the dealers, perhaps you can explain why when I go to one of them who is an impartial unbiased sportsman who sells BSA he will tells me they are the best, the next sells, Theoben and they are the best, the next Ripley and they are the best, the next Air Arms and so on and so on. I have NEVER walked into a dealer and he has said X, Y or Z is the best but we don't sell them, the best is ALWAYS a make they have a dealership for! You do NOT get an honest unbiased opinion from your local gun dealer!

I did bring up dealers. Obviously, I cannot speak for all dealers but I merely stated that they offer free advice (unless some charge an admission fee). Air gun mags do not. If the dealers you frequent are staffed by c*nts then I'm genuinely sorry and it's probably time you shopped elsewhere.

 

The ones I go to are staffed by impartial unbiased sportsman. I've known them long enough to know I'm not being bullshitted. They are shooters first and foremost.

 

They have impartial unbiased sportsman shopping there and hanging around there. Again, I've known them long enough to know I'm not being bullshitted.

 

They don't say product A is the best. Or product B. Or C but will compare the merits of all compared and allow myself or anyone there to make a decision based on that advice. Or invite them to do further research to decide what they want.

 

I've never been pushed a product that is in stock.

 

I've never been pressure sold anything. Infact when I've asked for something they don't stock, they've ordered it for me and kept me informed of it's whereabouts. They've even stocked things based on my findings and their own independent testing.

 

As they stock most of the leading rifles from the manufacturers, you've mentioned, I'm able to have a look at product A, B or C as they have them in stock. After all it is an air gun shop.

 

I cannot explain why your dealer is pushing a particular product as I don't know him and never will. All I can state is that my dealer is great guy. His shop is staffed by other great guys. His shop is frequented by other great guys that run great shooting clubs.

 

A new shooter would fair much better in this kind of environment than anything a catalogue can ever produce, but to keep it based on dealers versus magazines, a new shooter that can pick up any kind of rifle, or see several brands side by side, even if the dealer is a c*nt, would be much better off than reading the pages of a really shitty air gun rag.

 

Maybe they need to bring back the modern day equivelent of John Darling?

You up for the task Mr Darcy?

Edited February 23, 2008 by ChrisJones