Society

[WILF 47,787]

7 minutes ago, TRUEBRIT66 said:

I’m divided on this issue, one of my lads has almost certainly got Aspergers, some of his ways are strange (to me) beyond words but hes a good lad and no trouble. The other met with a girl who’s whole family are on some sort of medication for anxiety or depression and he seemed to slip into their mindset to the point he now is waiting to be tested (takes 2 years) and has almost been sectioned on a number of occasions. For us it was hard as when he lived with us he had no issues and wasn’t on medication even though he claims he just kept it under wraps.

We have a wonderful Grandson and Granddaughter, and the grandson is my little hero but because he sometimes repeats the first word 7 or 8 times before he starts a sentence, they are saying he has autism. To me he’s only 4 and all he’s doing is thinking about the next word to get out, because he has legend status in my eyes and is perfect, they say I’m ignoring it.

If I’m honest I do struggle with it as it feels like the slightest bit of pressure in life and people pull the mental health card, It also seems to be the next “thing” where parents use it as an excuse for bad behaviour or almost like the latest fashion statement, which takes away the seriousness of people who really do have genuine mental health issues.

On a personal note I have blamed myself at times and often questioned if my attitude towards it is because I don't want to admit my parenting or genetics caused it. We are all different but I still maintain a great deal is down to lazy diagnosis, the ease to medicate and people just looking for excuses rather than solutions.    

Depends what you class as “bad behaviour”, for lots of these kids autism and it’s related conditions absolutely IS an excuse for “Bad”?? Behaviour because they don’t fit neatly into the box created by a one size fits all education system or indeed the one size fits all life system of “leave school, take on massive debt and stress, work so hard it makes you ill, die” 

It’s torture, and I don’t say that likely, but it’s literally torture for them…..these kids are fighting their own heads every single day trying to fit into our vision of the world and the education system and all the other absolute bollocks we place massive importance on…..and in quiet a lot of instances they are doing it alone with only their family to support them.

They don’t have friend networks, they don’t have social outlets like sport or scouts or guides or clubs.

They are the kids that never went to anyone’s birthday party, they are the kids that watch their siblings go out the door to meet their friends or play their sport, they never got to do a Christmas play at school…..they are alone except for the people that love them.

The systems needed for them at school are almost non existent, a very high functioning lad like my boy who can sit down with you and have a full conversation about history, theology, science, the theory of evolution, how particles and atoms react to each other or some such thing (??too much for me) will be put in the same class as a kid who strangles puppy’s and is able for pepper pig !! (True story !) 

They can’t take that and there isnt the resources to give them the breaks they need from it during the day.

So, like my lad, they may be home schooled which again negates their wider social circle. 
 

I can’t speak to your older child’s situation with his girlfriend because I don’t know enough details, I can only relate about my own daughter when she hooked up with a non starter and his screamer family…..long story short, after 2 years when I could see it was dragging her down I just stepped in and said “right, that’s enough”…..caused me no end of horrible trouble with my daughter and sometimes my wife, but sometimes as dad your job isn’t to be popular its to have the courage to do what needs to be done.

And it was and is now, after the event acknowledged that it was the right thing to do…..because it was ruining her. 

I agree that some people like to ware their child’s diagnosis like a badge and that fucks me off as well, but I try and take a view of “well, that’s just how they deal with it”…….those of us who have autistic children are wise enough (I hope) to know that everyone’s story is different. 
 

Genetics and guilt ?…..nah, I have 3 other older kids who are not autistic (I was going to say normal but that’s not the right word because my younger daughter is like me and has loads of funny quirks)……..we don’t ask why kids aren’t autistic do we ?

It’s just how they are, we don’t have to worry about that in reality , we just have to love them.

These kids don’t fit perfectly into line with the rest of us morons in our bullshit world with bullshit things we make important…..good for them !

Autism isn’t a mental health issue, it’s a mind that works in different ways…..beautiful, funny, idiosyncratic ways, sometimes heartbreaking challenging ways…..but just different.

The question is, who’s getting it wrong, us or them ? lol 

[jukel123 8,733]

6 minutes ago, WILF said:

Depends what you class as “bad behaviour”, for lots of these kids autism and it’s related conditions absolutely IS an excuse for “Bad”?? Behaviour because they don’t fit neatly into the box created by a one size fits all education system or indeed the one size fits all life system of “leave school, take on massive debt and stress, work so hard it makes you ill, die” 

It’s torture, and I don’t say that likely, but it’s literally torture for them…..these kids are fighting their own heads every single day trying to fit into our vision of the world and the education system and all the other absolute bollocks we place massive importance on…..and in quiet a lot of instances they are doing it alone with only their family to support them.

They don’t have friend networks, they don’t have social outlets like sport or scouts or guides or clubs.

They are the kids that never went to anyone’s birthday party, they are the kids that watch their siblings go out the door to meet their friends or play their sport, they never got to do a Christmas play at school…..they are alone except for the people that love them.

The systems needed for them at school are almost non existent, a very high functioning lad like my boy who can sit down with you and have a full conversation about history, theology, science, the theory of evolution, how particles and atoms react to each other or some such thing (??too much for me) will be put in the same class as a kid who strangles puppy’s and is able for pepper pig !! (True story !) 

They can’t take that and there isnt the resources to give them the breaks they need from it during the day.

So, like my lad, they may be home schooled which again negates their wider social circle. 
 

I can’t speak to your older child’s situation with his girlfriend because I don’t know enough details, I can only relate about my own daughter when she hooked up with a non starter and his screamer family…..long story short, after 2 years when I could see it was dragging her down I just stepped in and said “right, that’s enough”…..caused me no end of horrible trouble with my daughter and sometimes my wife, but sometimes as dad your job isn’t to be popular its to have the courage to do what needs to be done.

And it was and is now, after the event acknowledged that it was the right thing to do…..because it was ruining her. 

I agree that some people like to ware their child’s diagnosis like a badge and that fucks me off as well, but I try and take a view of “well, that’s just how they deal with it”…….those of us who have autistic children are wise enough (I hope) to know that everyone’s story is different. 
 

Genetics and guilt ?…..nah, I have 3 other older kids who are not autistic (I was going to say normal but that’s not the right word because my younger daughter is like me and has loads of funny quirks)……..we don’t ask why kids aren’t autistic do we ?

It’s just how they are, we don’t have to worry about that in reality , we just have to love them.

These kids don’t fit perfectly into line with the rest of us morons in our bullshit world with bullshit things we make important…..good for them !

Autism isn’t a mental health issue, it’s a mind that works in different ways…..beautiful, funny, idiosyncratic ways, sometimes heartbreaking challenging ways…..but just different.

The question is, who’s getting it wrong, us or them ? lol 

Well said young man!

[jukel123 8,733]

When  'primitive' people tie the knot, the community builds them a house. No impossible mortgage or rent to pay for the rest of their lives.. The community takes on the task of rearing the children not just the parents. Children are accepted for who they are. Not forced into roles and boxes they are not comfortable with.

Yes we've got plastic things, goodies  and cars but we've lost peace of mind and acceptance.  Modern society makes us all ill.

[WILF 47,787]

7 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

When  'primitive' people tie the knot, the community builds them a house. No impossible mortgage or rent to pay for the rest of their lives.. The community takes on the task of rearing the children not just the parents. Children are accepted for who they are. Not forced into roles and boxes they are not comfortable with.

Yes we've got plastic things, goodies  and cars but we've lost peace of mind and acceptance.  Modern society makes us all ill.

I’d say being the parent of an ASD child makes you realise all the shoe boxes and tick boxes we are made to fit into from cradle to grave…..these kids just say “I don’t want to do that box because it makes me unhappy and I can’t see the logic in that?” 
 

The pain is always a parent or the system trying to force them into one of those boxes (be that through ignorance or necessity)…..it’s like pushing someones head under water mate. 

[TRUEBRIT66 1,688]

7 minutes ago, WILF said:

 
 

I can’t speak to your older child’s situation with his girlfriend because I don’t know enough details, I can only relate about my own daughter when she hooked up with a non starter and his screamer family…..long story short, after 2 years when I could see it was dragging her down I just stepped in and said “right, that’s enough”…..caused me no end of horrible trouble with my daughter and sometimes my wife, but sometimes as dad your job isn’t to be popular its to have the courage to do what needs to be done.

 

Funny you say that I did step in had my say just before they got married and I was classed as not understanding, unsympathetic and a bully. It was always me and my wife who were the ones who picked up the pieces when he had a episode and these episodes always coincided with him having a drink as well, which was also another reason I was sceptical and I was told I was not welcome by her family at the wedding. Eventually that was "kind of resolved" and I was my sons best man so I would like to think that speaks volumes.

I got two amazing grandchildren now and squirm when they try to label my grandson with Autism/adhd simply because he is a bit over active and he has this slight speech issue at this moment.

I try to ignore any discussion surrounding it now as being a Dad/Grandad sometimes means knowing when to keep your gob shut as well.   

 

[Goly 1,558]

1 hour ago, jukel123 said:

Not quite lol. But kids in the fifties had no stress because although  school was a pain (literally)but there were no such things as scary exams or peer pressure or having poorer quality clothes than other kids because everybody was in the same boat. There was nothing to do in the house so you played out from morning till night. There was the baths, the picture house on Saturdays and bombed houses to explore. There were part time jobs and fights to settle differences instead of bitching on Instagram or Tik Tok. You could literally have a scrap and become friends again in seconds. I had no worries whatsoever. Enough grub, lots of friends and a feeling of belonging  to the community. I have 90 odd per cent good memories of my childhood. Teenage years were a very different story.

That's not really any different from the 80's and 90's mate.

[WILF 47,787]

1 minute ago, TRUEBRIT66 said:

Funny you say that I did step in had my say just before they got married and I was classed as not understanding, unsympathetic and a bully. It was always me and my wife who were the ones who picked up the pieces when he had a episode and these episodes always coincided with him having a drink as well, which was also another reason I was sceptical and I was told I was not welcome by her family at the wedding. Eventually that was "kind of resolved" and I was my sons best man so I would like to think that speaks volumes.

I got two amazing grandchildren now and squirm when they try to label my grandson with Autism/adhd simply because he is a bit over active and he has this slight speech issue at this moment.

I try to ignore any discussion surrounding it now as being a Dad/Grandad sometimes means knowing when to keep your gob shut as well.   

 

Absolutely mate, you did your bit, everyone is a grown up in this situation, all you can do is be there if they need you now……that’s how it works squire.

[Aled 514]

Older dads linked to rise in genetic disorder - BBC News

Is this of relevance? I can speak from experience, i was 35 when my son was born. I've got two children with Phenylketonuria (PKU) which is a genetic condition which both my wife and i carry. It means my children's bodies cannot process protein properly if not managed it can lead to physical and mental disability. Thankfully modern science meant we knew about it from birth and the condition has been well managed, both my son (18) and my daughter (16)  lead full and active lives, very good academically and socially. I count my blessings. 

[WILF 47,787]

2 minutes ago, Aled said:

Older dads linked to rise in genetic disorder - BBC News

Is this of relevance? I can speak from experience, i was 35 when my son was born. I've got two children with Phenylketonuria (PKU) which is a genetic condition which both my wife and i carry. It means my children's bodies cannot process protein properly if not managed it can lead to physical and mental disability. Thankfully modern science meant we knew about it from birth and the condition has been well managed, both my son (18) and my daughter (16)  lead full and active lives, very good academically and socially. I count my blessings. 

I take a view of we can all drive ourselves mad with the “why” but it’s unimportant……”why” won’t change any of our situations so imho it’s irrelevant.

We just do what you have done, deal with it.

[Goly 1,558]

In the future this will probably be unheard of through genetic engineering, the question is, should we be able to play god? 

[Aled 514]

Nice reply Wilf, and i get it. Goly, i know families who knew they had a genetic twist within them, and have used technology to avoid passing it on to their children. I have no strong feelings either way. 

[WILF 47,787]

1 minute ago, Goly said:

In the future this will probably be unheard of through genetic engineering, the question is, should we be able to play god? 

I’m not going to lower this thread and a decent conversation to a level of our normal playground nonsense so I say this with total calm sincerity:

I personally think that question (as a wider question, not a personal attack on you) is an outrageous question……I wouldn’t for one second want to “engineer” my boy not to be my boy…..that’s just my opinion. 

[Goly 1,558]

Just now, Aled said:

Nice reply Wilf, and i get it. Goly, i know families who knew they had a genetic twist within them, and have used technology to avoid passing it on to their children. I have no strong feelings either way. 

I personally think we should, life is very beautiful, but it can also be very painful. If you can ensure a genetically healthy child then I'd be all for it.

[TRUEBRIT66 1,688]

1 minute ago, WILF said:

Absolutely mate, you did your bit, everyone is a grown up in this situation, all you can do is be there if they need you now……that’s how it works squire.

I just see it in some cases as lazy labelling now almost like using the "mental health issues" as the new "racism" card, kind of shuts down any discussion surrounding it and you mustn't question it which gives people with genuine mental health issues a real discredit. 

I have to say that I am not being disparaging to anyone else's views, opinions or experiences with mental health issues and genuinely sympathise with anyone who lives with this in their life, I just struggle understanding it with my experiences.      

[jukel123 8,733]

8 minutes ago, Aled said:

Nice reply Wilf, and i get it. Goly, i know families who knew they had a genetic twist within them, and have used technology to avoid passing it on to their children. I have no strong feelings either way. 

There's one obvious genetic tweek society could make and that would be to control/ ban fertile matings of cousins.  I 've no problem with cousins having sex but having children is too much of  a risk imo The odds of children being born severely handicapped is greatly increased.. The burden on the children and society and especially the NHS is too great.

Edited yesterday at 10:16 by jukel123