Breeding siblings ?

[Aussie Whip 4,192]

1 hour ago, low plains drifter said:

Fair dinkum?

Ridgy didge old chap.

[Sully. 383]

I’ve just crossed my bitch 3 weeks ago, half brother half sister 

[Backandbeyond 104]

Half brother and sister is one thing. That's part of a breeding process for line breeding and keeping things tight. 

But dogs from the same litter is surely amateur stuff imo. Madness. 

[Black neck 16,414]

10 minutes ago, Backandbeyond said:

Half brother and sister is one thing. That's part of a breeding process for line breeding and keeping things tight. 

But dogs from the same litter is surely amateur stuff imo. Madness. 

Some of the so called top lines of bull terrier lurchers started out this way 

[gnipper 6,600]

It's line breeding if it works and inbreeding if it don't. 

 Some very good livestock of all species has been produced from line breeding

[Black neck 16,414]

Just now, gnipper said:

It's line breeding if it works and inbreeding if it don't. 

 Some very good livestock of all species has been produced from line breeding

And people 

[Krishna 95]

11 minutes ago, Black neck said:

And people 

Works well for the Royals.

[mr moocher 1,022]

ive done half brother and sister mating,and son over his mother all pups were fine and good examples of there breed then i out crossed

[low plains drifter 10,853]

6 hours ago, Aussie Whip said:

Ridgy didge old chap.

Do they do Castlemaine? 

[Backandbeyond 104]

3 hours ago, gnipper said:

It's line breeding if it works and inbreeding if it don't. 

 Some very good livestock of all species has been produced from line breeding

Agree with that first sentence. 

Why would anyone breed two siblings from the same litter? Genuine question.

I wouldn't take a free pup from a brother sister mating, no benefits at all. Same exact genetics, no improvement to be gained. 

 

[Aussie Whip 4,192]

5 hours ago, Backandbeyond said:

Agree with that first sentence. 

Why would anyone breed two siblings from the same litter? Genuine question.

I wouldn't take a free pup from a brother sister mating, no benefits at all. Same exact genetics, no improvement to be gained. 

 

They do it to see what underlying genetic problems exist in their dogs and to cement a line. I wouldn't do it on purpose but I've only bred the odd litter for myself and rather use dogs that were good workers even if they are totally unrelated. Not worth the chance of having underlying problems come out later on. They have a strain of lab mice they only breed brother to sister and are never sick but it's probably hundreds of generations and culling to get to that stage.

[jeemes 4,596]

9 hours ago, Backandbeyond said:

Agree with that first sentence. 

Why would anyone breed two siblings from the same litter? Genuine question.

I wouldn't take a free pup from a brother sister mating, no benefits at all. Same exact genetics, no improvement to be gained. 

 

So all siblings are twinned?

[jeemes 4,596]

12 hours ago, mr moocher said:

ive done half brother and sister mating,and son over his mother all pups were fine and good examples of there breed then i out crossed

Why did you outcross ?

[Krishna 95]

3 minutes ago, jeemes said:

Why did you outcross ?

The whole point of inbreeding is to lock in traits, and the only point in outcrossing is to add in traits that you desire. It would make no sense inbreeding and then immediately outcrossing, if that's needed then you shouldn't have been doing the inbreeding to start with. What is key is to cull hard when inbreeding, if done properly then you should be ok.

[jeemes 4,596]

13 minutes ago, Krishna said:

The whole point of inbreeding is to lock in traits, and the only point in outcrossing is to add in traits that you desire. It would make no sense inbreeding and then immediately outcrossing, if that's needed then you shouldn't have been doing the inbreeding to start with. What is key is to cull hard when inbreeding, if done properly then you should be ok.

I mean why didnt you go in more? How can we be sure that the good traits we are wanting to fix are fixed so quickly?  Can you rid the strain of all recessives in just 2 matings?  When you outcross you are introducing thousands of new genes and the the risk of undoing the good work you have done. The idea is to purify/fix as you say, its a fascinating thing but it takes time in dogs that are bred for work traits, but you have to have an eye on the physical aswell.