Football season 24/25

[jukel123 8,827]

17 minutes ago, WILF said:

Fergie is full of shit and just said whatever he thought gave him an edge in any particular situation, that’s not a gripe by the way, fair play to him because that’s what it’s all about.

But he can’t talk about respecting a competition because it was basically him that treated the FA cup like shit in the first place by withdrawing to go and play the world club cup. 

You can't criticise a God like that. Beware a thunderbolt from Heaven  you semi Irish heathen.

Edited February 11 by jukel123

[WILF 47,991]

1 hour ago, jukel123 said:

You can't criticise a God like that. Beware a thunderbolt from Heaven  you semi Irish heathen.

I think Fergie was the greatest of his generation just for clarity mate.

I think he would last about 2 minutes now with young players but his record will stand forever.

But he was a cheeky old b*****d who knew how play mind games, which I love by the way, so he isn’t in a position to lecture anyone. 

[mC HULL 13,907]

Just now, WILF said:

I think Fergie was the greatest of his generation just for clarity mate.

I think he would last about 2 minutes now with young players but his record will stand forever.

But he was a cheeky old b*****d who knew how play mind games, which I love by the way, so he isn’t in a position to lecture anyone. 

footballers are shite compared to 20year ago gone backwards

[NEWKID 27,676]

6 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

footballers are shite compared to 20year ago gone backwards

I remember my uncle saying the same to me in the 90s compared to his time in the 60s/70s..

Nothing stays the same, the game has changed massively, I miss the physicality of the older generations, the speed and directness....even the muddy pitches and orange balls in the snow... but the skill levels and fitness levels in and modern game, plus the pace is incomparable imo..

I'd rather the style of those 90s teams without doubt, but that's cause I'm looking through older man's eyes 

[Goly 1,818]

I think skill wise they were better but athletically they're not even close, even watching highlights of the 90's, they look like pit ponies compared to the players nowadays.

[jukel123 8,827]

40 minutes ago, WILF said:

I think Fergie was the greatest of his generation just for clarity mate.

I think he would last about 2 minutes now with young players but his record will stand forever.

But he was a cheeky old b*****d who knew how play mind games, which I love by the way, so he isn’t in a position to lecture anyone. 

Fergie was a master of psychology . He could spin any narrative to his advantage. If you read biographies about him, he was totally ruthless. Sometimes cruel and greedy. He also created this " everybody's against us" mentality. The richest club in the world and he created " a poor us", resentful vibe in the team. He played mind games with other managers, opposition players and refs.

I used to really enjoy his mastery of press conferences. He reigned over journalists like they were terrified schoolboys. Discipline was his watchword. Anybody that stood up against him was history. Even world class players. He often said that was the secret of his success. But that power came with his longevity in the job.

Managers these days are not given time to build, so I don't think we'll see his like again.

 

[gnasher16 30,535]

47 minutes ago, NEWKID said:

I remember my uncle saying the same to me in the 90s compared to his time in the 60s/70s..

Nothing stays the same, the game has changed massively, I miss the physicality of the older generations, the speed and directness....even the muddy pitches and orange balls in the snow... but the skill levels and fitness levels in and modern game, plus the pace is incomparable imo..

I'd rather the style of those 90s teams without doubt, but that's cause I'm looking through older man's eyes 

And i think that applies throughout the leagues as well i watch players at tier 7 and 8 who are far superior technical players on the ball than would have played at the same level years ago....also,fitter/stronger......better pitches etc

All amounts to a far higher level of football throughout the game in my opinion......theres a big element of nostalgia in sport we all like what we grew up watching as they were our most impressionable years as men......but it doesnt mean it was " better "

[NEWKID 27,676]

1 minute ago, gnasher16 said:

And i think that applies throughout the leagues as well i watch players at tier 7 and 8 who are far superior technical players on the ball than would have played at the same level years ago....also,fitter/stronger......better pitches etc

All amounts to a far higher level of football throughout the game in my opinion......theres a big element of nostalgia in sport we all like what we grew up watching as they were our most impressionable years as men......but it doesnt mean it was " better "

I watched Tiverton play last season, always played a decent standard and was/is one of the top local non league sides, they played the same style as pro sides, passing out from the back, the centre backs happy to have the ball, the full backs always the out ball.. building in phases up through the pitch.. its no longer "put it into the big centre forward and play off him"!. No doubt the standard of football played is up quite a few notches, it's taken English sides quite a few years to play the European way.. Spain were obviously the blueprint, retain possession, meant everyone had to be comfortable on the ball... I played that standard, I couldn't now...

[gnasher16 30,535]

25 minutes ago, NEWKID said:

I watched Tiverton play last season, always played a decent standard and was/is one of the top local non league sides, they played the same style as pro sides, passing out from the back, the centre backs happy to have the ball, the full backs always the out ball.. building in phases up through the pitch.. its no longer "put it into the big centre forward and play off him"!. No doubt the standard of football played is up quite a few notches, it's taken English sides quite a few years to play the European way.. Spain were obviously the blueprint, retain possession, meant everyone had to be comfortable on the ball... I played that standard, I couldn't now...

Im no tactician so i'll bow to knowledge above my own but i also think a lot of it is simply to do with better conditions both pitches and physical fitness......how often at that level do you see some tubby fat boy playing full back nowadays like you did years ago,almost never......these lads are fit and committed athletes nowadays,most are on a reasonable wage at that level so willing to put more in fitness/diet wise.

Like you say players playing out from the back.....that was almost impossible years ago on shitty bumpy or bogged down pitches where players at that level just wasnt willing to take the risk of playing across their own box.....likewise players have more confidence in their own basic touch and control on modern pitches we have a centre back at my local club who really should be playing at a higher level in my opinion....im not going to say he's Bobby Moore esque......but certainly on that vibe,comfortable on the ball,reads situations etc i think that was harder to spot years ago when we booked a good centre half as a player who won all his headers and 50/50 balls......the games changed for the better in my opinion certainly at that level.

Edited February 11 by gnasher16

[NEWKID 27,676]

6 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

Im no tactician so i'll bow to knowledge above my own but i also think a lot of it is simply to do with better conditions both pitches and physical fitness......how often at that level do you see some tubby fat boy playing full back like years ago.....almost never......these lads are fit and committed nowadays,most are on a reasonable wage at that level so willing to put more in fitness/diet wise.

Like you say players playing out from the back.....that was almost impossible years ago on shitty bumpy or bogged down pitches where players at that level just wasnt willing to take the risk of playing across their own box.....likewise players have more confidence in their own basic touch and control on modern pitches we have a centre back at my local club who really should be playing at a higher level in my opinion....im not going to say he's Bobby Moore esque......but certainly on that vibe,comfortable on the ball,reads situations etc i think that was harder to spot years ago when we booked a good centre half as a player who won all his headers and 50/50 balls......the games changed for the better in my opinion certainly at that level.

Absolutely, agree with all of that mate... to get "caught" with the ball at the back was a crime in the past, "clear your lines" a shout that went up most times it was near a centre back.. so up in the air went the ball for the scrap to win first and 2nd balls... 

Now it's "take a touch", "time", "play out" etc.. I was a talker on the pitch, but one of only a few at our standard in most teams.. the amature sides talk far better now as well, it's more constructive... its certainly not as phulysical, no where near, but to a man they are better footballers 

Edited February 11 by NEWKID

[WILF 47,991]

1 hour ago, gnasher16 said:

And i think that applies throughout the leagues as well i watch players at tier 7 and 8 who are far superior technical players on the ball than would have played at the same level years ago....also,fitter/stronger......better pitches etc

All amounts to a far higher level of football throughout the game in my opinion......theres a big element of nostalgia in sport we all like what we grew up watching as they were our most impressionable years as men......but it doesnt mean it was " better "

 

58 minutes ago, NEWKID said:

I watched Tiverton play last season, always played a decent standard and was/is one of the top local non league sides, they played the same style as pro sides, passing out from the back, the centre backs happy to have the ball, the full backs always the out ball.. building in phases up through the pitch.. its no longer "put it into the big centre forward and play off him"!. No doubt the standard of football played is up quite a few notches, it's taken English sides quite a few years to play the European way.. Spain were obviously the blueprint, retain possession, meant everyone had to be comfortable on the ball... I played that standard, I couldn't now...

I think anyone who is into football understands that some things are new and good, some things are old and good and should be used and some things are just basic rules of thumb that transcend the ages.

Forest is a bit of case in point in my opinion, they are scoring all sorts of goals.

Nicely played goals with passing through the 3rds, good old fashioned beat the full back and deliver to a big centre forward goals, they can build up, they can be direct, they are using a decent No.10 type player to full effect…..what forest is doing is old fashioned imho.

Dont know what you lads think ?

[gnasher16 30,535]

I havent been watching enough top level footie to judge recently but i do think at lower and non league football even though theres still that desire to play out from the back its not absolutely vital......i imagine where players dont have the same confidence in their own ability they are more willing to go long when in doubt , and i think thats good......at top pro level its seen as a bit 2 bob to " hoof it " and as we see players end up getting themself in trouble whereas there isnt that same pressure to do that  at non league.......that game at Orient last week they didnt try to match City they fought them and battled in the areas they could compete, that all makes sense to me rather than trying to play out every time and play around them in pretty triangles......again,i dont pretend to know more than i do but i certainly think theres an element of speed/strength and directness creeping back into the game where almost a target man type centre forward is having his value again....but again i probably havent been watching enough top notch stuff to say.

[gnasher16 30,535]

30 minutes ago, WILF said:

 

I think anyone who is into football understands that some things are new and good, some things are old and good and should be used and some things are just basic rules of thumb that transcend the ages.

Forest is a bit of case in point in my opinion, they are scoring all sorts of goals.

Nicely played goals with passing through the 3rds, good old fashioned beat the full back and deliver to a big centre forward goals, they can build up, they can be direct, they are using a decent No.10 type player to full effect…..what forest is doing is old fashioned imho.

Dont know what you lads think ?

Loathe as i am to admit it but dont you like watching Spurs play mate ?.....attacking,flowing high speed football ok it doesnt always come off but when it does its so refreshing to see its like they use that Son as a target man but without launching high balls at him i think they really use his speed and ability well..............well they was a few years ago anyway 

[WILF 47,991]

1 minute ago, gnasher16 said:

I havent been watching enough top level footie to judge recently but i do think at lower and non league football even though theres still that desire to play out from the back its not absolutely vital......i imagine where players dont have the same confidence in their own ability they are more willing to go long when in doubt , and i think thats good......at top pro level its seen as a bit 2 bob to " hoof it " and as we see players end up getting themself in trouble whereas there isnt that same pressure to do that  at non league.......that game at Orient last week they didnt try to match City they fought them and battled in the areas they could compete, that all makes sense to me rather than trying to play out every time and play around them in pretty triangles......again,i dont pretend to know more than i do but i certainly think theres an element of speed/strength and directness creeping back into the game where almost a target man type centre forward is having his value again....but again i probably havent been watching enough top notch stuff to say.

I think that’s spot on chief, a good example was when that Savinho (I think ?) picked up a loose ball outside his own penalty box when an attack broke down and the orient lad just come in and put one down the back of his calf…..I like the lower league stuff, I just think it’s way more relatable.

[WILF 47,991]

2 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

Loathe as i am to admit it but dont you like watching Spurs play mate ?.....attacking,flowing high speed football ok it doesnt always come off but when it does its so refreshing to see its like they use that Son as a target man but without launching high balls at him i think they really use his speed and ability well..............well they was a few years ago anyway 

I do mate, I like the way that Postacoglu thinks about the game and what he wants the team to do.

Listen, you know yourself, they have had what ? 6 or 7 of the best managers in the game the last few years and it’s the same story all the time…..nobody can tell me all those managers are getting it wrong.