shaaark 10,743 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 10 minutes ago, WILF said: Absolutely fascinating lads, I genuinely mean that…….I don’t believe that lads who I think are fairly switched on dudes don’t fully comprehend the implication of the legislation and the sentence…… One day soon, we will all be talking about how the government is taking the piss and don’t care about what people think or the wider consequence to the communities of that land and asking how they get away with it………and the answer is because you all approved of your right to say or do anything about it being taken away from you, in fact you cheered ! Wow !! lads, just wow !! The government has been taking the piss for years, wilf. No matter who we voted for, or why, they've still taken the piss, gone back on their words, spun things and just plain lied!! You should be all too aware of that. Leaving this thread now, as you are MUCH more of a political animal than me, and you'll probably tie me in knots with all that political mumbo jumbo!! Lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mel b 2,342 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 18 minutes ago, WILF said: Absolutely fascinating lads, I genuinely mean that…….I don’t believe that lads who I think are fairly switched on dudes don’t fully comprehend the implication of the legislation and the sentence…… One day soon, we will all be talking about how the government is taking the piss and don’t care about what people think or the wider consequence to the communities of that land and asking how they get away with it………and the answer is because you all approved of your right to say or do anything about it being taken away from you, in fact you cheered ! Wow !! lads, just wow !! You've sort of answered your own question there wilf. The court did care about what people think , and the wider consequences to communities . That's why they got so much jail time. I don't think that anyone on this thread has said that they shouldn't have the right to demonstrate , only that they shouldn't have the right to cause problems for others . I would support anyone's right to protest , even the lacs etc . But I certainly don't think that they have any right to trespass on private land , assault people , disrupt other perfectly legal activities , that good people have worked hard to pay for , In fact , I'd have half of them locked up before they could get their balaclava off. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bakerboy 4,734 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 I heard today they were out on bail for previous offences ( dont know how true it is ) that might have a bearing on the sentencing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,763 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 The cornerstone of western democracy that is the freedom to assemble and speak, does not extend to civil disobedience! They’re two different things! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mC HULL 12,438 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, WILF said: Absolutely fascinating lads, I genuinely mean that…….I don’t believe that lads who I think are fairly switched on dudes don’t fully comprehend the implication of the legislation and the sentence…… One day soon, we will all be talking about how the government is taking the piss and don’t care about what people think or the wider consequence to the communities of that land and asking how they get away with it………and the answer is because you all approved of your right to say or do anything about it being taken away from you, in fact you cheered ! Wow !! lads, just wow !! 90’percent couldn’t function if it wasn’t for the government been told what to do how to act lol 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,786 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, mel b said: You've sort of answered your own question there wilf. The court did care about what people think , and the wider consequences to communities . That's why they got so much jail time. I don't think that anyone on this thread has said that they shouldn't have the right to demonstrate , only that they shouldn't have the right to cause problems for others . I would support anyone's right to protest , even the lacs etc . But I certainly don't think that they have any right to trespass on private land , assault people , disrupt other perfectly legal activities , that good people have worked hard to pay for , In fact , I'd have half of them locked up before they could get their balaclava off. Mate, the thing I think lads are failing to grasp is that this isn’t really about “them”……this is about a police commander being able to randomly decide that any protest about anything, at any time or just planning it can land you 5 years in the nick. The benchmark to say that the legislation applied to you and your thing and that you are guilty is completely down to the police commander/cps/government……. They can make it apply to a street party or a carnival if they want to……that’s how vague and open ended and how far reaching it is. And now they have got away with actually putting fairly ordinary people in jail for a long time using that legislation, it all proven in the court and good to go…… Like, it’s a big f***ing deal mate…..I don’t see how people can’t grasp that ? Edited July 23 by WILF 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 23,474 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 There’s an individual about to get possibly a life sentence for having meetings and phone calls and emails with his mates, not for actually DOING anything, but PLANNING to do things. Anjem Choudry . I wonder if the people who are demanding an urgent meeting with the Attorney General to complain about the JSO sentences, will do the same for Choudry ? Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,786 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 37 minutes ago, Born Hunter said: The cornerstone of western democracy that is the freedom to assemble and speak, does not extend to civil disobedience! They’re two different things! Mate, that legislation is worded in such a way as they could call almost anything they want to “civil disobedience” ……….honestly, it’s howling mate. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,786 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 1 minute ago, chartpolski said: There’s an individual about to get possibly a life sentence for having meetings and phone calls and emails with his mates, not for actually DOING anything, but PLANNING to do things. Anjem Choudry . I wonder if the people who are demanding an urgent meeting with the Attorney General to complain about the JSO sentences, will do the same for Choudry ? Cheers. Because standing around with a placard holding up traffic is exactly the same as attacking somewhere with an AK47 ! Let’s put it in real context, you go to a village protest about a new housing estate on the green belt and get 5 behind the door. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 23,474 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 Just now, WILF said: Because standing around with a placard holding up traffic is exactly the same as attacking somewhere with an AK47 ! Let’s put it in real context, you go to a village protest about a new housing estate on the green belt and get 5 behind the door. I’m not supporting Choudry , in fact he should be locked up and the key thrown away but I doubt he’s ever held an AK 47 let alone killed anyone. Im playing Devils Advocate here; so Freedom of Speech and Freedom to Protest is ok if you’re a white, middle class anarchist, bit it’s not ok if you’re a Pakistani heritage, muslim rabble rouser ? No one has got five years for protesting about the green belt at their local village, they got between four and five years for persistently breaking the law despite being warned many times that they would face jail if they continued. So, when/if Choudry gets a life sentence for PLANNING something, can he count on your support Wilf ? Of course he can’t and he can’t count on my support either ! You either have law and order or you have anarchy and the break down of society. Cheers. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lenmcharristar 9,761 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 14 minutes ago, chartpolski said: I’m not supporting Choudry , in fact he should be locked up and the key thrown away but I doubt he’s ever held an AK 47 let alone killed anyone. Im playing Devils Advocate here; so Freedom of Speech and Freedom to Protest is ok if you’re a white, middle class anarchist, bit it’s not ok if you’re a Pakistani heritage, muslim rabble rouser ? No one has got five years for protesting about the green belt at their local village, they got between four and five years for persistently breaking the law despite being warned many times that they would face jail if they continued. So, when/if Choudry gets a life sentence for PLANNING something, can he count on your support Wilf ? Of course he can’t and he can’t count on my support either ! You either have law and order or you have anarchy and the break down of society. Cheers. Thats how i see it, behave like animals get treated like one, we want peace n quiet in our lives, you need law and order or the scum of society will take over and make peoples lives hell until somebody actually snaps, its part of our very nature, from tribal times, we sorted our own out and kept peace in camps Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joe ox 2,574 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 The punishment should always fit the crime sadly it quite often doesn't in our legal system. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,763 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 55 minutes ago, WILF said: Mate, that legislation is worded in such a way as they could call almost anything they want to “civil disobedience” ……….honestly, it’s howling mate. Then I’m on board with you. Risk of ‘mission creep’ with laws should be a concern of anyone. But also, in this instance at least it was applied to people who did carry out civil disobedience, rather than age old protest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 20,542 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 There's a lot to unpack with this but at the core of it I'm against these heavy sentences, but when you look at the details, these are repeat offenders, I think one had been bailed 11 times, there has to be a line I suppose. If it hasn't been said then we only have to look at Canada and the truckers protests to see how sinister the state can get given half a chance. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,786 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, chartpolski said: I’m not supporting Choudry , in fact he should be locked up and the key thrown away but I doubt he’s ever held an AK 47 let alone killed anyone. Im playing Devils Advocate here; so Freedom of Speech and Freedom to Protest is ok if you’re a white, middle class anarchist, bit it’s not ok if you’re a Pakistani heritage, muslim rabble rouser ? No one has got five years for protesting about the green belt at their local village, they got between four and five years for persistently breaking the law despite being warned many times that they would face jail if they continued. So, when/if Choudry gets a life sentence for PLANNING something, can he count on your support Wilf ? Of course he can’t and he can’t count on my support either ! You either have law and order or you have anarchy and the break down of society. Cheers. What was he planning mate ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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