THE STIFFMEISTER 15,725 Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 4 minutes ago, bird said: fair point Stiff, but what comes home to me is this, in the premier league , our English players have lot of top players from other countries , take them out of there teams and your left with lot over rated English players that carnt deliver against other top country. there very good chance that England go out the next group against harder teams . Southgate should bring on palmer , and rest foden , leave watkins on, then you may see more drive up front of the goal. if Southgate doesn't change his team around we loose , and southgate will either leave or he get the sack. I don’t think we have overrated players at all . walker , kane , Foden, Bellingham , stones , TAA, , saka, all fit into the best teams in the world comfortably. I think the system is being made to appease egos and the media . A blind man can see TAA will struggle to find balls to Kane and Foden as they don’t have the movement that the Liverpool front line have . It’s so basic and square pegging it’s tragic . with captain hindsight in charge , we should have had all this ironed out two years ago , tested all this in the friendlies last year and kept the same team for the run up in a shaping phase ready to perform , if he wasn’t taking grealish , he shouldn’t have been near the team . It’s total bollocks . After this tournament he’s down the road anyway , he may as well rest Kane and Bellingham for last group game , give Foden free rein in number 10 with Watkins up top and Gordon under orders to get the ball and charge . We have the best set of players there , that’s without question, getting after teams should be par for the course . The leader takes responsibility for decisions , now’s the time to get on the front foot 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 7,957 Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 (edited) There's always a death wish about England. They've got 4 points from 2 games and there's a media funeral being held ffs. Give the players a break. The problem is the level of expectation is ridiculously high. And the England supporters are like spoilt kids. As soon as things don't go to plan they turn on the team. I remember Rooney saying after running his bollocks off for 90 minutes " great when your own supporters boo you!" If you are a player on 150 grand or more a week it must be a poisoned chalice being picked for England. You can turn from national treasure to enemy no 1 at the kick of a ball. We should be grateful these lads give up their time and do their best for the national team. They shouldn't have to endure this doom mongering pressure and funereal gloom. We should learn from other supporters...support your team through thick and thin and stop throwing plastic chairs about when we lose. Edited June 22 by jukel123 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE STIFFMEISTER 15,725 Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 1 hour ago, jukel123 said: There's always a death wish about England. They've got 4 points from 2 games and there's a media funeral being held ffs. Give the players a break. The problem is the level of expectation is ridiculously high. And the England supporters are like spoilt kids. As soon as things don't go to plan they turn on the team. I remember Rooney saying after running his bollocks off for 90 minutes " great when your own supporters boo you!" If you are a player on 150 grand or more a week it must be a poisoned chalice being picked for England. You can turn from national treasure to enemy no 1 at the kick of a ball. We should be grateful these lads give up their time and do their best for the national team. They shouldn't have to endure this doom mongering pressure and funereal gloom. We should learn from other supporters...support your team through thick and thin and stop throwing plastic chairs about when we lose. Loosers whine about doing their best winners go home and f**k the prom queen . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,645 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 (edited) Most teams are the coaches personality personified…..it’s as simple as that. We witnessed it with Moyes and we can see it with England. Theres certain groups of players who will never fit with a personality, it’s just anathema to them…..hence the high intensity of Ragnicks Austria that looks a hell of a lot like Klopps Liverpool in their pomp and yet he couldn’t make that happen at Utd. Its how a coach believes the game should be played and he puts it there in the team. Kane shouldn’t even be in the team, period !…..he can’t play that system ! If anything he should be the number 10 because his final pass to break the back line is exquisite, it’s fast, it’s instant and he knows where the attacker wants the ball. Id personally have him dropping into a 10 with the likes of Foden, Saka, Gordon, Watkins or Palmer running beyond him and then Kane taking up the space on the edge of the 18 for anything that bounces out. Rice higher putting out fires behind him and starting plays, Stones as a 6…..but hey, what the f**k do I know, this blokes doing it at the highest level and I ain’t. Just occurred to me, and this is going to be controversial, should Bellingham be in the team ?……does that squad work better or worse with him in it ? Edited June 23 by WILF 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE STIFFMEISTER 15,725 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 4 hours ago, WILF said: Most teams are the coaches personality personified…..it’s as simple as that. We witnessed it with Moyes and we can see it with England. Theres certain groups of players who will never fit with a personality, it’s just anathema to them…..hence the high intensity of Ragnicks Austria that looks a hell of a lot like Klopps Liverpool in their pomp and yet he couldn’t make that happen at Utd. Its how a coach believes the game should be played and he puts it there in the team. Kane shouldn’t even be in the team, period !…..he can’t play that system ! If anything he should be the number 10 because his final pass to break the back line is exquisite, it’s fast, it’s instant and he knows where the attacker wants the ball. Id personally have him dropping into a 10 with the likes of Foden, Saka, Gordon, Watkins or Palmer running beyond him and then Kane taking up the space on the edge of the 18 for anything that bounces out. Rice higher putting out fires behind him and starting plays, Stones as a 6…..but hey, what the f**k do I know, this blokes doing it at the highest level and I ain’t. Just occurred to me, and this is going to be controversial, should Bellingham be in the team ?……does that squad work better or worse with him in it ? The thing is mate I think the system has been adapted to fit Bellingham in it should be built round him , we won’t see the best of him this tournament Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,645 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said: The thing is mate I think the system has been adapted to fit Bellingham in it should be built round him , we won’t see the best of him this tournament I think we have real pace and ability in that team and I think the last two games he has slowed everything down. He got found out last game over playing and getting swamped 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE STIFFMEISTER 15,725 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 1 minute ago, WILF said: I think we have real pace and ability in that team and I think the last two games he has slowed everything down. He got found out last game over playing and getting swamped Fair , but (and this is a big but) , he is the only proven WINNER and big game player in that team . the only one with a proven and tested win at all costs mentality Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,645 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 4 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said: Fair , but (and this is a big but) , he is the only proven WINNER and big game player in that team . the only one with a proven and tested win at all costs mentality Foden has won more mate, so has Walker & Stones, AA has won as much…..so I don’t really agree with that. I think he is an outstanding young player but still only 21 and Southgate has thrown the whole team out of balance to accommodate him…..and despite his undoubted quality and great technique you can see he is still learning some decision making, hence taking 4 touches and trying to show boat a little when a basic 1 touch and pass may do it ? I think we need to be careful of building a young player up too much, we have form for doing that in England and it always bites us in the arse…..I think there’s a chance Southgate has fallen into that trap and bottled having to deal with the media if he just used him sparingly as you should a young player in the right moments…..I think he is maybe too scared not to start him and it’s f****d everything up a bit ? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE STIFFMEISTER 15,725 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 37 minutes ago, WILF said: Foden has won more mate, so has Walker & Stones, AA has won as much…..so I don’t really agree with that. I think he is an outstanding young player but still only 21 and Southgate has thrown the whole team out of balance to accommodate him…..and despite his undoubted quality and great technique you can see he is still learning some decision making, hence taking 4 touches and trying to show boat a little when a basic 1 touch and pass may do it ? I think we need to be careful of building a young player up too much, we have form for doing that in England and it always bites us in the arse…..I think there’s a chance Southgate has fallen into that trap and bottled having to deal with the media if he just used him sparingly as you should a young player in the right moments…..I think he is maybe too scared not to start him and it’s f****d everything up a bit ? I see that , but they haven’t won massive games mate , themselves . They have been part of successful teams , but they aren’t winning games themselves . He does . He’s been absolutely sensational in most big games this year , el Classico , champions league etc . Can you say the same of Foden et al ? perhaps he don’t fit in that system , but as posted earlier , that should have been ironed out before this group , you know yourself that teams have to get used to each others game before performing . We had time to shape and grow, instead we we’re f***ing about against b rate teams with the fringe players 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 7,957 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 18 hours ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said: Loosers whine about doing their best winners go home and f**k the prom queen . We have not lost anything yet. But the obituaries have already begun. The press love bringing England down. There's going to be a lot players like Ben White who decide playing for England is not worth the earache. Wilf, I agree a team does reflect the personality of the manager. Southgate would have shone as an accountant or risk assessor had he not been a footballer. He's an establishment man chosen by a committee. One of the chaps. Don't be surprised then when his teams mirror the managers safety first mindset. . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE STIFFMEISTER 15,725 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 16 minutes ago, jukel123 said: We have not lost anything yet. But the obituaries have already begun. The press love bringing England down. There's going to be a lot players like Ben White who decide playing for England is not worth the earache. Wilf, I agree a team does reflect the personality of the manager. Southgate would have shone as an accountant or risk assessor had he not been a footballer. He's an establishment man chosen by a committee. One of the chaps. Don't be surprised then when his teams mirror the managers safety first mindset. . The winning mindset is established in a team . That’s why top, top teams win things , it’s an attitude that develops into an unconsciously competence ability where you winning becomes formulaic look at Ronaldo , extrovert, active and an implementer . Look at him screaming for the ball all the time , pushing others out of the way to get dead balls . It’s a characteristic of all the top players , some call it selfishness , it’s one of the key attributes of being a Real Madrid player . Look at modric , Benzema , ramos . They epitomise it . who in the England team is the most likely to win a game on his own ? Where does he play ? the likes of Kane etc are just facsimiles of that as they haven’t yet triggered that aspect of their game , most will never . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pesky1972 5,219 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 Win, lose or draw they’ll be having a party. Would love to see us get through to carry this on just a wee bit longer. Hopefully the link works.., pipers leading the tartan army through the streets of Stuttgart earlier. Special x.com X.COM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 7,957 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 3 minutes ago, pesky1972 said: Win, lose or draw they’ll be having a party. Would love to see us get through to carry this on just a wee bit longer. Hopefully the link works.., pipers leading the tartan army through the streets of Stuttgart earlier. Special x.com X.COM The Scots will play to their utmost abilities and the fans will be behind them win lose or draw. Unlike England. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 7,957 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 (edited) 55 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said: The winning mindset is established in a team . That’s why top, top teams win things , it’s an attitude that develops into an unconsciously competence ability where you winning becomes formulaic look at Ronaldo , extrovert, active and an implementer . Look at him screaming for the ball all the time , pushing others out of the way to get dead balls . It’s a characteristic of all the top players , some call it selfishness , it’s one of the key attributes of being a Real Madrid player . Look at modric , Benzema , ramos . They epitomise it . who in the England team is the most likely to win a game on his own ? Where does he play ? the likes of Kane etc are just facsimiles of that as they haven’t yet triggered that aspect of their game , most will never . I agree. Ferguson did not sign players unless they played on the edge and were a bit unhinged in their approach to winning at all costs. If we had players of that kind Southgate would be scared to pick or play them in case they overstepped the mark. In a game when winning is everything, why was Southgate given the job? What was his track record? Failure and relegation! But his face fitted with the FA bureaucrats because he has a sensible, 'good chap' personna, wore a 3 piece suit and did their bidding. Thank God he didn't come to Old Trafford. Given Man Utd's history of attacking football, he would be the final straw in boring supporters to death. Edited June 23 by jukel123 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 23,227 Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 24 minutes ago, pesky1972 said: Win, lose or draw they’ll be having a party. Would love to see us get through to carry this on just a wee bit longer. Hopefully the link works.., pipers leading the tartan army through the streets of Stuttgart earlier. Special x.com X.COM Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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