Greyman 27,856 Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 They will be popping up everywhere same as happened with otters and polecats nobody admits to it but captive bred and released in vast numbers until a few learn to stay off the road and a small population will survive and thrive in suitable habitats 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tatsblisters 9,308 Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 46 minutes ago, forest of dean redneck said: That’s the releasers theory that they kill the greys but the reds are lighter and to nimble to get caught ?? I to find them fascinating as with all the small mustelids my ex wife had pet skunks and they were funny to watch with their evening antics . Probably down from me keeping ferrets in the past from a young age . Like you said mate they would be no doubt devastating on our native red squirrels though in woodland where they wasn't a red squirrel population is what i ment. Its the same with mink on water voles that used to be common on canals near me till the mink moved in though a chap i knew who lived in a lock keeper's house on the canal near Rotherham didn't mind the mink even though he kept a large aviary with finches and canary's as he said they kept the rat's down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Greyman 27,856 Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 28 minutes ago, tatsblisters said: Probably down from me keeping ferrets in the past from a young age . Like you said mate they would be no doubt devastating on our native red squirrels though in woodland where they wasn't a red squirrel population is what i ment. Its the same with mink on water voles that used to be common on canals near me till the mink moved in though a chap i knew who lived in a lock keeper's house on the canal near Rotherham didn't mind the mink even though he kept a large aviary with finches and canary's as he said they kept the rat's down. This could all be just the dream of the rewilding lobby but I have read that pine martinis will happily cohabit with red squirrels but kill greys it’s the reason for the releases grey squirrels are at epidemic proportions and rather than have kids with air guns keep them in check they would rather another little furry creature does the dirty work, similar to the mink otter water vole triangle, water voles are thriving alongside otters as otters don’t seem to tolerate mink and the mink can fit in the voles burrows but otters can’t it’s just restoring the balance in theory but it often goes wrong in reality 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg64 2,794 Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 25 minutes ago, Greyman said: This could all be just the dream of the rewilding lobby but I have read that pine martinis will happily cohabit with red squirrels but kill greys it’s the reason for the releases grey squirrels are at epidemic proportions and rather than have kids with air guns keep them in check they would rather another little furry creature does the dirty work, similar to the mink otter water vole triangle, water voles are thriving alongside otters as otters don’t seem to tolerate mink and the mink can fit in the voles burrows but otters can’t it’s just restoring the balance in theory but it often goes wrong in reality i don't think pine martins happily cohabit with the reds they will prey on them but because the pine martin has always been a native enemy of the reds they are much more wary to the presence of pine martins and seem to avoid them more than the non native greys ,it's like there hard wired to avoiding them through co existing for hundreds of years unlike the grey which i find amazing 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EDDIE B 3,159 Posted October 13 Report Share Posted October 13 On 11/10/2024 at 10:58, greg64 said: i don't think pine martins happily cohabit with the reds they will prey on them but because the pine martin has always been a native enemy of the reds they are much more wary to the presence of pine martins and seem to avoid them more than the non native greys ,it's like there hard wired to avoiding them through co existing for hundreds of years unlike the grey which i find amazing Here's the thing though. Greys are also hardwired to be cautious towards pine marten. There are marten in North America, who feed on grey squirrel. So I'm not buying it. I remember seeing a yourube video one time showing a little experiment with chickens. They stuck one of those birds of prey kites/scarer things up beside the chicken pen, to see if the chickens reacted. They did indeed react, and took to cover. So, if domesticated chickens are still hardwired to react seeing a silhouette of a bird if prey, then surely a wild grey squirrel is still hardwired to react to the sight or smell of a pine marten, or any predator, for that matter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Borr 5,652 Posted October 13 Report Share Posted October 13 16 minutes ago, EDDIE B said: Here's the thing though. Greys are also hardwired to be cautious towards pine marten. There are marten in North America, who feed on grey squirrel. So I'm not buying it. I remember seeing a yourube video one time showing a little experiment with chickens. They stuck one of those birds of prey kites/scarer things up beside the chicken pen, to see if the chickens reacted. They did indeed react, and took to cover. So, if domesticated chickens are still hardwired to react seeing a silhouette of a bird if prey, then surely a wild grey squirrel is still hardwired to react to the sight or smell of a pine marten, or any predator, for that matter. It might be that Grey's build more easily accessible dreys... Just putting it out there... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg64 2,794 Posted October 13 Report Share Posted October 13 49 minutes ago, EDDIE B said: Here's the thing though. Greys are also hardwired to be cautious towards pine marten. There are marten in North America, who feed on grey squirrel. So I'm not buying it. I remember seeing a yourube video one time showing a little experiment with chickens. They stuck one of those birds of prey kites/scarer things up beside the chicken pen, to see if the chickens reacted. They did indeed react, and took to cover. So, if domesticated chickens are still hardwired to react seeing a silhouette of a bird if prey, then surely a wild grey squirrel is still hardwired to react to the sight or smell of a pine marten, or any predator, for that matter. it was from an article i read where they set up a bait station and monitored it and i'm sure it also had some kind of sticky stuff to take hair samples of the pine martens and squirrels and they came to the conclusion that the greys were not put off feeding when the presence of pine martens but the reds stayed well away Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg64 2,794 Posted October 13 Report Share Posted October 13 this another article not the one i was talking about but says something similarGrey squirrels are oblivious to threat from pine martens – giving native reds the advantage (theconversation.com) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EDDIE B 3,159 Posted October 13 Report Share Posted October 13 11 minutes ago, greg64 said: this another article not the one i was talking about but says something similarGrey squirrels are oblivious to threat from pine martens – giving native reds the advantage (theconversation.com) O there's loads of articles suggesting that. Before that, the "experts" said, that the reds were light enough to go out onto thinner branches, that the pine marten were too heavy for. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg64 2,794 Posted October 13 Report Share Posted October 13 1 minute ago, EDDIE B said: O there's loads of articles suggesting that. Before that, the "experts" said, that the reds were light enough to go out onto thinner branches, that the pine marten were too heavy for. yehh heard that as well 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wildman 478 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 At the end of the day it,s just nature the experts can say what they want,,Martins will catch reds and greys there both a natural prey they also take eggs chick's and adult feather,,, top of the food chain predator,,and good luck to em fantastic mammals 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
comanche 2,882 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 16 hours ago, greg64 said: it was from an article i read where they set up a bait station and monitored it and i'm sure it also had some kind of sticky stuff to take hair samples of the pine martens and squirrels and they came to the conclusion that the greys were not put off feeding when the presence of pine martens but the reds stayed well away Could it not indicate the reds were avoiding the grey squirrels as well as the pine martens ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
comanche 2,882 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 (edited) Pine Martens will actually be a block to effective grey squirrel control . Where greys exist methods for their control will need to be tailored so as to reduce the likelihood of nailing a protected marten . Some proven methods of squirrel control may have to be abandoned . Even if pine martens really did exist historically in some of the places they are to be, or have been, released ; today's is a different landscape . It's been proved that campaigns by properly determined human agency against grey's are effective . Throwing a wild card like a bunch of pine martens at the problem is a populist but lazy attempt at control .It's also poses as yet unknown risks to other wildlife. If it goes wrong what are the realistic chances of the Law being changed to allow control of the martens? It is an irreversible experiment! Edited October 14 by comanche 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,455 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 (edited) Here, a raid on your fowl (especially water fowl which seem to attract mustelids like magnets) is much more likely to be a mink or a pine marten rather than a fox…..there are way more of them than there are fox as well. The amount of predators and vermin species in the west of Ireland is unbelievable and almost everything is protected unless you have some derogation that you have to go to the trouble of applying for. Corvids are everywhere !…..and it’s illegal to decoy crows. Also, some crow species are protected and some are not…..which I personally would find a pain in the arse to distinguish in the dim light of an early morning crow session. Basically, it’s pretty easy to fall foul of the law so to me, it’s not worth the hassle. This policy is reflected in the amount and variety of wildlife here…..compared to here, England, Scotland and Wales are lifting with gear. Gun clubs here are all sending each other WhatsApp messages if they see one skinny pheasant in a hedgerow like they have seen the White Heart ! Lol Edited October 14 by WILF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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