Dog eating the catch….

[maty j 6]

Hola! Long time user coming back for abit of advice. 

I was volunteering at a rescue after loosing my old lurcher Tess. Didn’t plan to get another dog but a problem lurcher came in. He’d had multiple owners who had all returned him and needed a ‘special kind of owner’, the rescues words not mine

 

long story short, I spent some time with him and realised he was still mailable. He’s been a lot of work but his recall is spot on. He listens well. He’s behaved in the house although did cause carnage at the beginning which I assume was separation anxiety after being ditched so many times. But yeah, he’s a decent pet and that’s why I got him above all else. 
 

however, his prey drive is insane so I thought I’d get back into the field sports after taking abit of a break. He’s caught squirrels and one, maybe 2 daytime rabbits before and been sweet about me having them. 
 

last night we were out and I noticed a rabbit in the middle of the field. I only had a torch but when I say torch, it’s a proper decent thing so Geoff gets sent away. Runs down the beam, buggs takes flight and they’re off. Few twists and turns and the mong ends up rolling over I keep the beam on buggs as he’s running towards me trying to get to the hedge. A shake of the beam confuses buggs enough and he darts back away from the hedge and Geoff swoops him up. 
 

happy days I thought! His first rabbit on the lamp. I’ll do this more often. Lamp goes off, i crouch and whistle him in but he ducks off the opposite direction. I keep whistling and I can hear him eating this rabbit now. I try to go over and he just runs a few more yards away. Great. I tried everything. Running away from him. Went back to the car a couple of hundred yards away. Nothing would make him follow me and when I went back to trying to get it he would f**k off each time. 
 

he must of chomped half of it before I could get a hand on the rabbit which he did try to pull off me and f**k off again! Presumably to eat some more. Great idea Geoff

so, long story short, had anyone had this and can it be overcome?

 

he caught this around his tea time so maybe wanted something off menu last night. I also thought maybe he’s lacking something in his diet. He’s on burgess lurcher dry with butchers lean and tasty. Then I also thought he’s just doing it to be a c**t like the times where he’s looked at me and just tipped his water bowl over in the ealry days. He must of had some proper soft owners so was used to behaving like this

 

sooooo, any and all advice appreciated

[mr moocher 917]

i had a pitbullxgrey that always ate the first rabbit i didnot mind as i dont eat it, but hed bring back the others

[Peter4190 85]

Sounds like a proper saluki 

[shaaark 10,693]

9 hours ago, mr moocher said:

i had a pitbullxgrey that always ate the first rabbit i didnot mind as i dont eat it, but hed bring back the others

After eating a full rabbit, did it not affect his running straight after?!!

[mr moocher 917]

im not sure tbh but he still used to catch them but hed bring them back

[Casso 1,261]

Hand feed everything, feed the mutt when you walk it, feed out of the right hand, using the left to keep a little pressure on the chest/ base of neck area, might not want to push through the pressure of your left hand when you start,

let it overcome a little pressure at the start and gradually build up until the f****r can push full force to get the food, 

fearful dogs can’t project themselves physically on to their handlers, to do so, changes the dynamic, 

food is a prized item, caught game is a prized item, you’re just interjecting yourself physically into its behavior, how it interprets things, 

Food causes stimulation , it’s a physical thing , when we bowl feed there is nowhere for that stimulation to go, you’ll only see it if you encroach or another dog encroached, the close proximity will turn it into aggression, another way of looking at it is , canines in the wild generally have to overcome huge resistance to eat, run for f****n miles or take down prey 5/6 times their own size, they get to process huge amounts of energy doing so, by letting the dog project into you to overcome your resistance is a game changer for overcoming food aggression and other major issues you might have with a new dog of any dog for that matter,

 

best of luck 

[comanche 2,902]

21 hours ago, maty j said:

Hola! Long time user coming back for abit of advice. 

I was volunteering at a rescue after loosing my old lurcher Tess. Didn’t plan to get another dog but a problem lurcher came in. He’d had multiple owners who had all returned him and needed a ‘special kind of owner’, the rescues words not mine

 

long story short, I spent some time with him and realised he was still mailable. He’s been a lot of work but his recall is spot on. He listens well. He’s behaved in the house although did cause carnage at the beginning which I assume was separation anxiety after being ditched so many times. But yeah, he’s a decent pet and that’s why I got him above all else. 
 

however, his prey drive is insane so I thought I’d get back into the field sports after taking abit of a break. He’s caught squirrels and one, maybe 2 daytime rabbits before and been sweet about me having them. 
 

last night we were out and I noticed a rabbit in the middle of the field. I only had a torch but when I say torch, it’s a proper decent thing so Geoff gets sent away. Runs down the beam, buggs takes flight and they’re off. Few twists and turns and the mong ends up rolling over I keep the beam on buggs as he’s running towards me trying to get to the hedge. A shake of the beam confuses buggs enough and he darts back away from the hedge and Geoff swoops him up. 
 

happy days I thought! His first rabbit on the lamp. I’ll do this more often. Lamp goes off, i crouch and whistle him in but he ducks off the opposite direction. I keep whistling and I can hear him eating this rabbit now. I try to go over and he just runs a few more yards away. Great. I tried everything. Running away from him. Went back to the car a couple of hundred yards away. Nothing would make him follow me and when I went back to trying to get it he would f**k off each time. 
 

he must of chomped half of it before I could get a hand on the rabbit which he did try to pull off me and f**k off again! Presumably to eat some more. Great idea Geoff

so, long story short, had anyone had this and can it be overcome?

 

he caught this around his tea time so maybe wanted something off menu last night. I also thought maybe he’s lacking something in his diet. He’s on burgess lurcher dry with butchers lean and tasty. Then I also thought he’s just doing it to be a c**t like the times where he’s looked at me and just tipped his water bowl over in the ealry days. He must of had some proper soft owners so was used to behaving like this

 

sooooo, any and all advice appreciated

Before getting into quick fixes or witchcraft  the obvious things to try are  practicing recall and retrieving  with fur .

Don't  settle for scrappy retrieves  where the dog drops the item at your feet or does the circling or hanging-back "play with me" thing    A dog that gets away with junky retrieves in the sitting room or garden  is likely to be even worse in a field. 

Once you have the dog retrieving inedible objects move onto a fur dummy . Then try  a dead squirrel as a dummy. They  are the perfect size and balance . 

Then the big day when you bring out the dead bunny dummy. 

Teach the the dog to hold a dummy or game  while walking at heel.  

The carry combined with recall are the basic elements of a retrieve.

Of course a previous owner might've  fed your dog by lazily chucking it rabbit corpses. 

If as you say the dog is responsive to you  there is a good chance you can  re educate it  with  time and patience .  And you'll  feel rightly proud for taking someone's  cast off and putting a polish on it.

Good luck.

[Maximus Ferret 2,063]

19 minutes ago, comanche said:

Before getting into quick fixes or witchcraft  the obvious things to try are  practicing recall and retrieving  with fur .

Don't  settle for scrappy retrieves  where the dog drops the item at your feet or does the circling or hanging-back "play with me" thing    A dog that gets away with junky retrieves in the sitting room or garden  is likely to be even worse in a field. 

Once you have the dog retrieving inedible objects move onto a fur dummy . Then try  a dead squirrel as a dummy. They  are the perfect size and balance . 

Then the big day when you bring out the dead bunny dummy. 

Teach the the dog to hold a dummy or game  while walking at heel.  

The carry combined with recall are the basic elements of a retrieve.

Of course a previous owner might've  fed your dog by lazily chucking it rabbit corpses. 

If as you say the dog is responsive to you  there is a good chance you can  re educate it  with  time and patience .  And you'll  feel rightly proud for taking someone's  cast off and putting a polish on it.

Good luck.

out of interest, how do you propose that he should stop the dog getting away with scrappy retrieves? I know the type of thing you mean but in 50 years of lurchers one thing I've learned for sure is how easy it is to stop a dog retrieving altogether. I do like the sound of cassos' reply though. I don't know if it'd work but I'd certainly try it.

[Luckee legs 453]

2 hours ago, Maximus Ferret said:

out of interest, how do you propose that he should stop the dog getting away with scrappy retrieves? I know the type of thing you mean but in 50 years of lurchers one thing I've learned for sure is how easy it is to stop a dog retrieving altogether. I do like the sound of cassos' reply though. I don't know if it'd work but I'd certainly try it.

With you on that. Maybe work on the food guarding while using non fur items for training. I've always been able to get good retrieves with toys and dummies early on. Honestly In the field we've not always been able to sustain that promise. All retrieved game but 80% developed flaws whether circling, dropping early etc. usually related to working with other dogs . Anyway, good luck 

[maty j 6]

14 hours ago, Peter4190 said:

Sounds like a proper saluki 

I don’t know his heritage but just going off looks alone I’d say there is abit of saluki in there. 

[Casso 1,261]

I get that people might not understand the principle, most dogs will retrieve to a certain point,  then f**k about, 

the point I’m making is, you can develop a positive mindset in the dog in or around your space , 3 or 4 feet around you is where most dogs start reverting out of the positive state its in and back into a hand shy state, the body language will show it, it’s because we then become the negative in its environment, it can’t sustain the feeling,

So I work on the effect I have on the dog in that space, of course the dog will come into your space,  when f**k all is going on, every dog will,  but I want him to be able to be comfortable in my space when highly excited and energised also to be able to take instruction, 

Desire overcomes fear in animals, hunger becomes a tool to overcome anxiety, shy dogs can’t overcome the physical force of your hand against their chest, try it , the more at ease with you a dog is , the easier he can overcome the force to eat, it turns a negative space into a positive one, 

Applying force on to something is a predatory act, by overcoming the force of you, the dog is overcoming its own anxieties 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Casso

[shaaark 10,693]

15 hours ago, Peter4190 said:

Sounds like a proper saluki 

 

51 minutes ago, maty j said:

I don’t know his heritage but just going off looks alone I’d say there is abit of saluki in there. 

Yep, he does look a bit of a c**t. 

[iworkwhippets 12,495]

eh, dunno bout bit of a cnut , its a long thing and a thank you , thats fer sure, looks clempt to me 

[comanche 2,902]

6 hours ago, Maximus Ferret said:

out of interest, how do you propose that he should stop the dog getting away with scrappy retrieves? 

Well l guess you either put up with the dog dropping rabbits out of reach , not giving up its catch at all or in this case eating the bunny!

Or you put a bit of work in and either polish up any natural retrieving tendency or teach or re teach it from scratch . 

I'm not an expert but l have owned a dog that pretty much ate the first rabbit it caught . It wasn't being willful it was just exercising an element of it's  upbringing l had overlooked in training.

The guy who bred the litter hadn't  had many takers for the pups  so the pup was quite well grown when l got her. The litter had been running wild in a garden and seemingly fed on  supermarket waste.  They were in fantastic condition but a tad feral .

I put in the effort ,and glossing quickly over a bit of bad language and a couple of dead bantams had a dog l thought was ready for work 

I was over the Moon when she nabbed her first rabbit and came loping back towards me with it in her mouth  .     The trouble was the closer she came the more aware l was of a crunching noise and the rabbit disappearing in the manner of a rat being swallowed by a python. 

So there she was sitting perfectly at my side just like she'd been taught to present a dummy in training. But with only half the rabbit visible. I praised her for a quick recall and without making a fuss about the mangled bunny  got hold of it's  back legs and retrieved what l could!

 So we went back a couple of steps and did a bit more practice with warm game .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by comanche

[maty j 6]

1 hour ago, iworkwhippets said:

eh, dunno bout bit of a cnut , its a long thing and a thank you , thats fer sure, looks clempt to me 

Oh he is a c**t he’s just like me tbf which winds me up even more he acts like he’s starved. Drooling over my food yet there’s half a bowl of dry in his
 

he’s put on weight since I’ve had him. He was much skinnier. I had him in a crate before when I was out the house because he got returned for knocking a tv off the wall all and bouncing on it plus other destructive behaviour which to me was just his separation anxiety. Not knowing if this owner woukd desert him or even return. I totally get where he was coming from so I’ve worked ducking hard to build that bond with him.
 

I suspect the tv had an animal on it and the other owners were goading him into going after it then clearly didn’t like it when he did. Even now about 10 months in he’ll notice animals on tv and pay attention but in the beginning he’d launch at the tv, bark and snarling. Some people are f***ing clueless so it’s undoing all their bad training with work he now has the run of the living room and I worked it quickly that if he didn’t have food in his bowl he’ll cause mayhem. The furniture is unscathed but he’s managed to open cupboards and pull items out. Shred paper and documents etc he’s a million times better now but it’s taken a lot of work. I’m proud of myself and him but he’s still got abit to go before he’s where I want him to be.