Boots,Bear & Rose..

[Backandbeyond 104]

15 hours ago, FUJI said:

A personal favourite of yesteryear when two gladiator's are on course to square up to eachother...'let battle commence' 

Not for the faint hearted hunting at this level. Nothing like it.

[FUJI 17,082]

3 hours ago, Backandbeyond said:

Not for the faint hearted hunting at this level. Nothing like it.

I must admit since I was first introduced to lamping back in 1977 & from therefore on done lot's of hunting with dog's,lurchers & terrier's alike. Lamping being my longest involvement with running dog's & having also had a number of year's coursing I have to admit even regarding the hard work very often involved in getting to many of the place those critter's call home during the winter,on the highest of mountains,in remote glens etc where & when the weather can be borderline life threatening at the best of times,no mobile phone coverage should something untoward happen to you,there is a lot that can go wrong on wet,snow/ice covered granite,as you say even without what came when your dog put one over just being up there in mid winter isn't for the faint hearted,it's a dangerous 'game' in many respects & I tip my hat to anyone who regularly experienced the thrill of it all. Hunting the high ground out of all my year's working lurchers has probably been the 'crème de la crème' of it all. I guess it all boils down to the type of dog you run, I've owned several that I 'thought' would be superstars up on the mountains yet they ran as if walking on glass. You need a well balanced dog that can glide over the deep heather & granite alike,a dog that is as sure footed as next doors moggy,one that isn't shy of the harshest winter weather because when the winds blowing at 70mph & the rain is horizontal there is no hiding places up there,when the snows on the ground & the wind is up,real feel temperatures often get below -20C..I've had dog's that shirked conditions like that mentioned,I don't think it made them bad dog's just that they weren't dog's suited for hunting the mountains. I've got lost in blizzard's on the mountains even where I've walked in excess of a hundred times,I've had dog's collapse on me in such conditions too,even on the day's when the weather is favourable thing's can go wrong. There is no help up there,you have to make spur of the moment decisions that can mean life or death in certain situations. Nothing is guaranteed when it comes to hunting & no more so than when hunting on the high ground in winter..'Nothing like it' as you say,I couldn't agree more.

[ijf 111]

@FUJI, great thread. 

 

What is the best type of dog for the mountains in your opinion? As in what way bred. Or another way of asking is what way bred was the best running dog you had for the mountain? 

 

 

[FUJI 17,082]

4 hours ago, ijf said:

@FUJI, great thread. 

 

What is the best type of dog for the mountains in your opinion? As in what way bred. Or another way of asking is what way bred was the best running dog you had for the mountain? 

 

 

I don't think there's any one particular type that is guaranteed to be successful working the high ground. Every dog is different. Were the laws reverted back to before 2004 & hunting deer with dog's legal one cross that I would personally be intrigued to try would be a Saluki/Grey x Deerhound/Grey or at least with a mixture of that blood. I'm not sure how one would do but it's a type I'd of loved to have worked on the mountains. It's not just running style that's needed as you also need a dog with plenty of fire in its belly for what resides up there inevitably isn't chicken fodder. I've seen & owned dog's that were mustard on the smaller species but were totally overwhelmed & intimidated by the sheer size,strength of the larger beast's,they didn't just crumple up & fold when the dog made contact as was often the case on smaller types. I owned a big 28tts fantastic looking Saluki lurcher,bred out of top of their game parents,it flattened the smaller species but he would never get up close & personal on the big uns on his own,he was grand when he had back up but he never put one horizontal on his own. I also had a bitch which was absolutely textbook at dealing with smaller animals, probably the best dog I've ever seen catching & dealing with the lesser species yet she was wary of getting up close & personal on her own too. She wasn't even average on them when with another dog to be honest. Some dogs I've seen wouldn't think twice of facing the biggest of beasts single handed but their issue was they couldn't catch them,they didn't have the running style nor speed to catch them. It really is a lottery if you were looking to buy a type of lurcher or breed one yourself that would guarantee success as a prolific catch dog on the mountains. I've seen two litter mate's working on the high ground,one was brilliant the other just didn't have the running style to do anything of great significance up there. My best advice would be whatever type you get then get it out & about regularly from being a pup up on the mountains,let it learn to run & avoid obstacles up there,get it used to the harsh weather,the steep terrain,mountain streams & all,let it be the norm to it,will it guarantee success? No it won't but it won't do the dog any harm in regards to helping it. What you need is a fast dog that can use it's brain,put the hammer down when able yet ease up when needed going down steep granite or into ravines etc,a fast dog with one gear will be dead & or finished in no time,a dog has to have the gear's & use them accordingly. A slow dog will never cut the mustard unfortunately. Obviously even if your lucky enough to get one able to control it's speed you still need that dog to have the minerals to do what needs doing. I've seen several very good dog's working the mountains,JD's dog Sparky probably my personal favourite,he was a masterclass to watch, brilliant dog who honestly could walk the walk. The best of my own lot was Boots,he was bred out of a dog called Razor (coursing bred) & a bitch called Abi (3/4 Grey x 1/4 Saluki),he done pretty well,plenty seen him doing what he done. We sure did have some fun over many many seasons.

[OldPhil 5,654]

Erudite and accurate observations from a hunter who has actually done the job

Back in the late 1970's/1980's we bred a few larger type lurchers,...mostly from Deerhound x Greyhound hybrids, and further enhanced the mix with the genes of our local Sheepdogs .

We fancied hitting the massive herds of Fallow and Sika that inhabited much of Hampshire and Dorset....

In hindsight, the inclusion of Bull blood or Desert dog would have been an improvement, alas,. .none of these superlative canines were readily available at that time.

Correspondingly, we just used what we had.

Mind you, our dogs then,.. still had plenty of go in them and would grab hold of most beasts. 

As a bit of a jolly, we tried them on the extremely large Reds that inhabited the heavily wooded, New Forest,.. and also the large beasts of Islay and Jura, in the mystical Western Isles...

I would have to honestly report, that we came woefully unstuck and in truth,...it was emotional

I continued to harvest the smaller types of deer on a nightly basis, for several decades,...it was only ever for profit, and thus,...I always took the easy route...

We kept well away from anything that might present a problem...

It would be foolish to say that our dogs , back then,  would have been ideal for the mountain job, because  I don't think they would have made the cut...

Hunting over such terrain requires a different set of skills, and a mind set to match...

I ended up as a hunter of conies,....I knew my place....

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18 by OldPhil

[Moonlighter123 149]

Great topic Fuji.. 

when your dogs are chasing the big fellows… how much distance do they cover before they make contact? Are they often out of eyesight and you have to rely on the tracker collars? 

[Backandbeyond 104]

Enjoyable write ups, much appreciated lads. A fascinating subject running dogs on the high places. Thanks for sharing and great photos too

Hopefully I'll have a new charge in the not too distant future with prospects similar to what has been discussed. Swithering as to what type of cross to include but have an idea of what I'm needing. 

The aspect of running style for a dog and its knowing when to use the right gears on certain terrain as Fuji mentions is so important and can't be overlooked. I think the addition of the right saluki blood really does help, not only with stamina but also running style and ultimately a dog that will be around for many seasons to come and not a career ended all too soon. Fuji's dog boots i would say is a case in point, obviously a dog who's learned to run and adapt to the challenges of the hill.

Very enjoyable read Fuji.

Much appreciated

[mC HULL 12,098]

17 hours ago, FUJI said:

I don't think there's any one particular type that is guaranteed to be successful working the high ground. Every dog is different. Were the laws reverted back to before 2004 & hunting deer with dog's legal one cross that I would personally be intrigued to try would be a Saluki/Grey x Deerhound/Grey or at least with a mixture of that blood. I'm not sure how one would do but it's a type I'd of loved to have worked on the mountains. It's not just running style that's needed as you also need a dog with plenty of fire in its belly for what resides up there inevitably isn't chicken fodder. I've seen & owned dog's that were mustard on the smaller species but were totally overwhelmed & intimidated by the sheer size,strength of the larger beast's,they didn't just crumple up & fold when the dog made contact as was often the case on smaller types. I owned a big 28tts fantastic looking Saluki lurcher,bred out of top of their game parents,it flattened the smaller species but he would never get up close & personal on the big uns on his own,he was grand when he had back up but he never put one horizontal on his own. I also had a bitch which was absolutely textbook at dealing with smaller animals, probably the best dog I've ever seen catching & dealing with the lesser species yet she was wary of getting up close & personal on her own too. She wasn't even average on them when with another dog to be honest. Some dogs I've seen wouldn't think twice of facing the biggest of beasts single handed but their issue was they couldn't catch them,they didn't have the running style nor speed to catch them. It really is a lottery if you were looking to buy a type of lurcher or breed one yourself that would guarantee success as a prolific catch dog on the mountains. I've seen two litter mate's working on the high ground,one was brilliant the other just didn't have the running style to do anything of great significance up there. My best advice would be whatever type you get then get it out & about regularly from being a pup up on the mountains,let it learn to run & avoid obstacles up there,get it used to the harsh weather,the steep terrain,mountain streams & all,let it be the norm to it,will it guarantee success? No it won't but it won't do the dog any harm in regards to helping it. What you need is a fast dog that can use it's brain,put the hammer down when able yet ease up when needed going down steep granite or into ravines etc,a fast dog with one gear will be dead & or finished in no time,a dog has to have the gear's & use them accordingly. A slow dog will never cut the mustard unfortunately. Obviously even if your lucky enough to get one able to control it's speed you still need that dog to have the minerals to do what needs doing. I've seen several very good dog's working the mountains,JD's dog Sparky probably my personal favourite,he was a masterclass to watch, brilliant dog who honestly could walk the walk. The best of my own lot was Boots,he was bred out of a dog called Razor (coursing bred) & a bitch called Abi (3/4 Grey x 1/4 Saluki),he done pretty well,plenty seen him doing what he done. We sure did have some fun over many many seasons.

serious question mate if the best you ever had for the job was say 5:8 saluki 3/8 lurcher ish and scooby was saluki lurcher ?? aswell why did you put him to bull blood? not linebreed him 

the bull x looks strong sturdy but there not as strong or hardy as a saluki bred the bull x has attributes don’t get me wrong but the dog can do it anyway so the negatives would out weigh the positives for me i think i’m going to go from a dog that can do what i want to an injury prone liability well that how my mind would work lol 

i understand some saluki lurchers would never make the grade for that work but some types will 

[tatsblisters 9,371]

Brilliant thread this FUJI. The cross you have mentioned the deerhound grey hound saluki grey got me thinking about a litter that's due on the ground soon or might be now bred by a well known old poacher from the outskirts of Rotherham the dam a 27tts deerhound grey hybrid back to a greyhound saluki hybrid that's got Nuttals blood in it and another well known coursing dog from the past from the same area JP Wilky. If I had still been at it I would have given one of these pup's ago in an heartbeat but I think the lad might have a bit of trouble getting homes for these pup's how the game has changed over the years. 

[Backandbeyond 104]

4 hours ago, tatsblisters said:

Brilliant thread this FUJI. The cross you have mentioned the deerhound grey hound saluki grey got me thinking about a litter that's due on the ground soon or might be now bred by a well known old poacher from the outskirts of Rotherham the dam a 27tts deerhound grey hybrid back to a greyhound saluki hybrid that's got Nuttals blood in it and another well known coursing dog from the past from the same area JP Wilky. If I had still been at it I would have given one of these pup's ago in an heartbeat but I think the lad might have a bit of trouble getting homes for these pup's how the game has changed over the years. 

Sounds a real good mix of strength, size, drive and stamina that would be capable for the likes of hill running and what is likely to be encountered quarry wise

Edited July 13 by Backandbeyond

[shaaark 10,693]

21 hours ago, mC HULL said:

serious question mate if the best you ever had for the job was say 5:8 saluki 3/8 lurcher ish and scooby was saluki lurcher ?? aswell why did you put him to bull blood? not linebreed him 

the bull x looks strong sturdy but there not as strong or hardy as a saluki bred the bull x has attributes don’t get me wrong but the dog can do it anyway so the negatives would out weigh the positives for me i think i’m going to go from a dog that can do what i want to an injury prone liability well that how my mind would work lol 

i understand some saluki lurchers would never make the grade for that work but some types will 

Well, ............ nah, pointless.

[mC HULL 12,098]

2 minutes ago, shaaark said:

Well, ............ nah, pointless.

come on we have all day lol 

[mC HULL 12,098]

5 hours ago, tatsblisters said:

Brilliant thread this FUJI. The cross you have mentioned the deerhound grey hound saluki grey got me thinking about a litter that's due on the ground soon or might be now bred by a well known old poacher from the outskirts of Rotherham the dam a 27tts deerhound grey hybrid back to a greyhound saluki hybrid that's got Nuttals blood in it and another well known coursing dog from the past from the same area JP Wilky. If I had still been at it I would have given one of these pup's ago in an heartbeat but I think the lad might have a bit of trouble getting homes for these pup's how the game has changed over the years. 

what would a deerhound grey bring to a good coursing bred tats what improvement ? size if that’s an improvement you wanted i can’t think of out else 

[tatsblisters 9,371]

6 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

what would a deerhound grey bring to a good coursing bred tats what improvement ? size if that’s an improvement you wanted i can’t think of out else 

If it were for out and out hare dogs probably nothing. Me personally for general mooching about and lamping I would have put the bitch too a beddy greyhound or collie greyhound hybrid to bring the size down a bit but that's just my choice. 

[mC HULL 12,098]

3 minutes ago, tatsblisters said:

If it were for out and out hare dogs probably nothing. Me personally for general mooching about and lamping I would have put the bitch too a beddy greyhound or collie greyhound hybrid to bring the size down a bit but that's just my choice.

lamping running what gets up a good coursing bred makes it look easy i think mate