Big cats UK

[notahunter 48]

1 hour ago, Daniel cain said:

Access Denied

WWW.TELEGRAPH.CO.UK

 

https://archive.ph/8V1E6 

[mushroom 13,477]

Evolution of a smaller species would be forced by either lack of food to sustain a larger predator physique or hunting to remove the biggest from the gene pool (like has happefed with African lions). Blighty is a perpetual buffet of deer, sheep, cattle, boar etc, so food isn’t the catalyst. Neither have any been hunted. So how can the evolution of smaller animals be explained? 
 

The pumard thing surprises me (not disagreeing mind). I would have thought a Jaguar cross puma would be more likely due to geography and genetic proximity. Leopards and pumas are not only from different continents but separated by millions of years and the Pacific Ocean  

[Greyman 29,868]

6 hours ago, mushroom said:

Evolution of a smaller species would be forced by either lack of food to sustain a larger predator physique or hunting to remove the biggest from the gene pool (like has happefed with African lions). Blighty is a perpetual buffet of deer, sheep, cattle, boar etc, so food isn’t the catalyst. Neither have any been hunted. So how can the evolution of smaller animals be explained? 
 

The pumard thing surprises me (not disagreeing mind). I would have thought a Jaguar cross puma would be more likely due to geography and genetic proximity. Leopards and pumas are not only from different continents but separated by millions of years and the Pacific Ocean  

Everything is speculation mate even amongst the people I meet and deal with everyone has there own theory’s, as I’ve said the pet trade was fed from around the world so even different sub species of leopard could bring the size down depending on who meets who there is certainly no lack of food here but there is also no competition from bigger predators as I’ve mentioned fox’s are splitting into two sub species of urban and rural with a size difference of roughly 40 percent between them I don’t remember that when I was selling skins in the 80s so that has come about within 50 years, it’s more questions than answers mate but it keeps me busy and for some we are never to old to learn 

[mackem 28,459]

5 minutes ago, Greyman said:

as I’ve said the pet trade was fed from around the world so even different sub species of leopard could bring the size down 

Question,as always legitimate,both yourself and Rick Minter have said in the past all leopards in the UK are black because leopards for the UK pet trade were sourced from the Malay peninsular,so if the UK pet trade was now supplied from Africa it begs the question where are the spotted cats?

[Greyman 29,868]

32 minutes ago, mackem said:

Question,as always legitimate,both yourself and Rick Minter have said in the past all leopards in the UK are black because leopards for the UK pet trade were sourced from the Malay peninsular,so if the UK pet trade was now supplied from Africa it begs the question where are the spotted cats?

That is another good question, that we have all asked ourselves I think various reasons the black ones were more prestigious to own be interesting if there were any records on what came in at the time I also think that spotted cats would stand out much more making them easier to catch or kill or maybe the black coat is more suitable to our climate and landscape, plus black leopards always breed black offspring unlike jags it’s another interesting mystery but every year the figures are the same regarding sightings 75% are black 15% puma type 5% lynx and the last 5% oddity’s you would be better off coming to the uni and asking the brains rather than the worker bee if you are really interested and I would genuinely take you along and introduce you 

[mackem 28,459]

5 minutes ago, Greyman said:

That is another good question, that we have all asked ourselves I think various reasons the black ones were more prestigious to own be interesting if there were any records on what came in at the time I also think that spotted cats would stand out much more making them easier to catch or kill or maybe the black coat is more suitable to our climate and landscape, plus black leopards always breed black offspring unlike jags it’s another interesting mystery but every year the figures are the same regarding sightings 75% are black 15% puma type 5% lynx and the last 5% oddity’s you would be better off coming to the uni and asking the brains rather than the worker bee if you are really interested and I would genuinely take you along and introduce you 

I am really interested in a lot of things,big cats included,I have actually asked Harrods about their source of wild animals back in the day but they had no info.

[mushroom 13,477]

1 hour ago, Greyman said:

Everything is speculation mate even amongst the people I meet and deal with everyone has there own theory’s, as I’ve said the pet trade was fed from around the world so even different sub species of leopard could bring the size down depending on who meets who there is certainly no lack of food here but there is also no competition from bigger predators as I’ve mentioned fox’s are splitting into two sub species of urban and rural with a size difference of roughly 40 percent between them I don’t remember that when I was selling skins in the 80s so that has come about within 50 years, it’s more questions than answers mate but it keeps me busy and for some we are never to old to learn 

If the urban foxes are bigger, then the obvious answer would be food. Urban environments offer easy food, higher calorific foods (pizza, kebab etc). Then you can also add that larger males would get choice breeding options, so t he next generation would carry those genes. That makes sense but with cats I can see no reason why dwarfism would occur. There’s no natural or artificial reason to explain it. Plenty of food, no competition, no hunting/culling of the larger members of the population (if it exists). With respect, it makes zero sense!

[Greyman 29,868]

43 minutes ago, mushroom said:

If the urban foxes are bigger, then the obvious answer would be food. Urban environments offer easy food, higher calorific foods (pizza, kebab etc). Then you can also add that larger males would get choice breeding options, so t he next generation would carry those genes. That makes sense but with cats I can see no reason why dwarfism would occur. There’s no natural or artificial reason to explain it. Plenty of food, no competition, no hunting/culling of the larger members of the population (if it exists). With respect, it makes zero sense!

The urban fox’s are the smaller by 40% mate go figure, as I’ve said I have seen good size males but there are always oddity’s I’d say the one on the skip is just a sub adult or small female no one knows the size of the gene pool we are dealing with are they all related back to the 70 s releases or are people still turning out one or two a year as has been suggested, as I’ve said more questions than answers 

[shaaark 10,985]

3 hours ago, mackem said:

Question,as always legitimate,both yourself and Rick Minter have said in the past all leopards in the UK are black because leopards for the UK pet trade were sourced from the Malay peninsular,so if the UK pet trade was now supplied from Africa it begs the question where are the spotted cats?

Still don't know how to put links etc up, so just took these.

 

[mackem 28,459]

38 minutes ago, shaaark said:

Still don't know how to put links etc up, so just took these.

 

Thank shaaark,bit ambiguous as not all leopards in the pet trade were melanistic,in fact knowing a woman's predilection for colour coordination and spotted leopardskin coats popularity back in the day a number will have been bog standard leopards sold on the pet market,the question stands,no spotted normally marked leopards?

 

[shaaark 10,985]

2 minutes ago, mackem said:

Thank shaaark,bit ambiguous as not all leopards in the pet trade were melanistic,in fact knowing a woman's predilection for colour coordination and spotted leopardskin coats popularity back in the day a number will have been bog standard leopards sold on the pet market,the question stands,no spotted normally marked leopards?

 

Wthout wishing to come across as obtuse, how do you know 'no- one' has ever reported a normally spotted leopard in the uk?

Besides, if the majority of sightings in the uk were at night, and in cover/dense undergrowth etc, would they possibly 'appear' to be black?

 

[mackem 28,459]

Just now, shaaark said:

Wthout wishing to come across as obtuse, how do you know 'no- one' has ever reported a normally spotted leopard in the uk?

Can't recall any,it's always black panther from memory,out in open fields.

[Pardus 392]

1 minute ago, mackem said:

Can't recall any,it's always black panther from memory,out in open fields.

I think we know why that is the case, because they are mistaking moggies for black panthers.

[mackem 28,459]

4 minutes ago, shaaark said:

Besides, if the majority of sightings in the uk were at night, and in cover/dense undergrowth etc, would they possibly 'appear' to be black?

Most sightings in the newspapers are daylight?

[shaaark 10,985]

2 hours ago, mackem said:

Can't recall any,it's always black panther from memory,out in open fields.

Not clear here, Mack, are you saying ALL non native big cat sightings in the uk have been black, and in open fields, most of them being in daylight?