British dog breeds in crisis

[TOPPER 1,809]

GREENGRASS YOU GOT MY VOTE THE KC ARE THE BIGGEST ENIMIES THE DOG WORLD HAVE, EVERY BRED THEY TAKE AN INTEREST IN GETS FCKED UP, CLASSIC CASE I HAVE A BEDLINGTON/LAKIE HYBRED A VERY RICH CHOCOLATE COLOUR AND IVE BEEN ASKED BY AT LEAST 4 KC BEDLINGTON BREEDERS IF THEY CAN USE HIM FOR STUD ONE EVEN OFFERED £1000 BUT AS SOON AS I SAY BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PAPERS AS HES A WORKER NOT A SHOW DOG ITS DONT WORRY ABOUT THAT WELL SORT SOME THING OUT TO WHICH I REPLY IF MY DOG DOESNT GET THE RECONITION HE DESERVES YOU CANT USE HIM NOT THAT I WOULD LET THEM ANYWAY ALL THEY WANT IS THAT COLOURING TO MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY OUT OF THEM POOR PUPS

I DO THINK TO MANY LITTERS ARE BRED BY NOVICE OWNERS TO MAKE A QUICK BUCK AND THIS DOESNT HELP ENHANCE AN BREED

[farlap 19]

Yes these dogs are bred to be as near to the 'standard' as physically possible.......but who do you all think writes up the standard and updates it........the breed clubs not the kc. Yes the kc take your money and are nothing more than moneymaking racketeers but they dont tell you what standard your breed of dog should look like.

 

The breed clubs and judges steer the course that breeders try and follow.

exactly. I sit on more than one sub committee where we are constantly trying to ensure that we retain breed type and fit for purpose......its the breed clubs, more often than not, run by dyed in the wool dog folk (those few of us that are left) who initiate changes to breed standards. And to be honest, a quick look back through the records will show that most breed standards have not been changed apart from minor things like colours or ocassionally an eye shape or similar, in a hundred years.

[Guest greengrass123]

Yes these dogs are bred to be as near to the 'standard' as physically possible.......but who do you all think writes up the standard and updates it........the breed clubs not the kc. Yes the kc take your money and are nothing more than moneymaking racketeers but they dont tell you what standard your breed of dog should look like.

 

The breed clubs and judges steer the course that breeders try and follow.

exactly. I sit on more than one sub committee where we are constantly trying to ensure that we retain breed type and fit for purpose......its the breed clubs, more often than not, run by dyed in the wool dog folk (those few of us that are left) who initiate changes to breed standards. And to be honest, a quick look back through the records will show that most breed standards have not been changed apart from minor things like colours or ocassionally an eye shape or similar, in a hundred years.

you mean like the bulldog i rest my case

[lurchergrrl 1,441]

Personally, I don't intend to breed my bitch 'cause I'd worry about every single pup. I'd not want them bred indiscriminately so someone could make a few pounds.

 

I recently saw an advert for "lurcher x dacshound" pups Why the feck would somebody do that? They advertised them as a RARE BREED! Gimme a break!

 

Most of us scoff at the so called DDA - if you ask me there ought to be a dangerous humans act. It's such a shame that so many people stick their fingers in the proverbial pie before washing their hands.

[jrt666 1]

they fook dog breeds up,no excuses,no bullshit,no big words.

 

breeding dogs to look good above anything else is just the wrong way to set about things.

 

the get on there high horses about peds and kc reg because they know that joe public will assume that all the paper work and the sky high price means they get the best dog but if the truth be known they will bend the rules to breed dogs that they think will win best in show.

 

its just a shame that jo public gets taken in by there bullshit

 

WANKERS.

[Malt 379]

Yes these dogs are bred to be as near to the 'standard' as physically possible.......but who do you all think writes up the standard and updates it........the breed clubs not the kc. Yes the kc take your money and are nothing more than moneymaking racketeers but they dont tell you what standard your breed of dog should look like.

 

The breed clubs and judges steer the course that breeders try and follow.

exactly. I sit on more than one sub committee where we are constantly trying to ensure that we retain breed type and fit for purpose......its the breed clubs, more often than not, run by dyed in the wool dog folk (those few of us that are left) who initiate changes to breed standards. And to be honest, a quick look back through the records will show that most breed standards have not been changed apart from minor things like colours or ocassionally an eye shape or similar, in a hundred years.

you mean like the bulldog i rest my case

Or that mess of a breed that passes for an English springer spaniel at the shows!

[Andrea 2]

you can shoot me should i ever darken the doors of the show world

As far as i'm concerned ( you may disagree) a working dog should be working, not poncing about in a show ring with ribbons in it's nicely shampoo'd coat.

i don't shampoo my dog, she get's a hosing down when she’s really bad, otherwise nothing, and she has one shiney coat.

[The Sporting Agent 0]

OMG Unscrupilous breeders, the lot of them need shooting themselves, the KC not much better. Another big problem in my book is people who have a litter just to get one pup, what happens to the rest of the litter? Sure some nd up in decent homes but not all, especially those last few to sell.......

 

I've seen this first hand, my Mrs runs a spaniel rescue. Last year they had over 250 dogs in, in December alone there was 1 each day and so far this year has been one per day also! Most of these come from breeders selling indescriminatly and not explaining to potential owners how much work, energy, exercise etc a spaniel takes.......

 

Take a look at http://www.nessr.net/

[Andrea 2]

OMG Unscrupilous breeders, the lot of them need shooting themselves, the KC not much better. Another big problem in my book is people who have a litter just to get one pup, what happens to the rest of the litter? Sure some nd up in decent homes but not all, especially those last few to sell.......

 

I've seen this first hand, my Mrs runs a spaniel rescue. Last year they had over 250 dogs in, in December alone there was 1 each day and so far this year has been one per day also! Most of these come from breeders selling indescriminatly and not explaining to potential owners how much work, energy, exercise etc a spaniel takes.......

 

Take a look at http://www.nessr.net/

 

i heard about this, but i believe many of the Springers had undocked tails so i presume (I may be wrong) that many of these Springer’s had not been bred as working dogs, rather, as pets.

I believe Springer’s along with Labs are in the top 10 breeds of dogs being rehomed. Many people get these’s dogs as cute pups without the understanding of how much physical and mental stimulation they require, pretty soon these pet owners can’t cope with the destruction dogs cause, based on boredom. That’s why i believe working dogs should be worked, or at least given the stimulation they require.

Again it comes down the popularity of these breeds and breeders williness to cash in on it.

[The Sporting Agent 0]

OMG Unscrupilous breeders, the lot of them need shooting themselves, the KC not much better. Another big problem in my book is people who have a litter just to get one pup, what happens to the rest of the litter? Sure some nd up in decent homes but not all, especially those last few to sell.......

 

I've seen this first hand, my Mrs runs a spaniel rescue. Last year they had over 250 dogs in, in December alone there was 1 each day and so far this year has been one per day also! Most of these come from breeders selling indescriminatly and not explaining to potential owners how much work, energy, exercise etc a spaniel takes.......

 

Take a look at http://www.nessr.net/

 

i heard about this, but i believe many of the Springers had undocked tails so i presume (I may be wrong) that many of these Springer’s had not been bred as working dogs, rather, as pets.

I believe Springer’s along with Labs are in the top 10 breeds of dogs being rehomed. Many people get these’s dogs as cute pups without the understanding of how much physical and mental stimulation they require, pretty soon these pet owners can’t cope with the destruction dogs cause, based on boredom. That’s why i believe working dogs should be worked, or at least given the stimulation they require.

Again it comes down the popularity of these breeds and breeders williness to cash in on it.

 

You are right, in this case many of them are undocked, but many many are docked, from working type homes, or sold from working breeders to non working homes without any thought. The onus must be on the breeder to breed good and sell accordingly....

Edited February 1, 2008 by The Sporting Agent

[farlap 19]

OMG Unscrupilous breeders, the lot of them need shooting themselves, the KC not much better. Another big problem in my book is people who have a litter just to get one pup, what happens to the rest of the litter? Sure some nd up in decent homes but not all, especially those last few to sell.......

 

I've seen this first hand, my Mrs runs a spaniel rescue. Last year they had over 250 dogs in, in December alone there was 1 each day and so far this year has been one per day also! Most of these come from breeders selling indescriminatly and not explaining to potential owners how much work, energy, exercise etc a spaniel takes.......

 

Take a look at http://www.nessr.net/

 

i heard about this, but i believe many of the Springers had undocked tails so i presume (I may be wrong) that many of these Springer’s had not been bred as working dogs, rather, as pets.

I believe Springer’s along with Labs are in the top 10 breeds of dogs being rehomed. Many people get these’s dogs as cute pups without the understanding of how much physical and mental stimulation they require, pretty soon these pet owners can’t cope with the destruction dogs cause, based on boredom. That’s why i believe working dogs should be worked, or at least given the stimulation they require.

Again it comes down the popularity of these breeds and breeders williness to cash in on it.

 

whilst the definition of "breeder" is legally simply someone who has bred from their dog.....in my quite large experience i find that 9 out of 10 rescues are simply bred by pet owners who are ignorant enough to believe that their pet bitch/kids would all benefit from having a litter. then they advertise them in the local paper at 7 weeks and sell them without home checks or question or advise. Same goes for the puppy farms who keep a number of bitches from the popular breeds as breeding machines. However none of these are likely to be members of their breed clubs, to have tested for inherited defects/illnesses or to be breeding for type and temperament. This goes completely against the grain of what those of us who consider ourselves "responsible" breeders strive for. i have travelled most of the world to look at bloodlines to improve my lines and to bring new bloodlines into the UK. I know exactly where every puppy i have bred over 18 years is now and would take any of them back at any stage of its life if the owner couldnt keep it for any reason. Thats how responsible caring breeders behave. These are not the sort of dogs that end up in rescue....most of those are bred from pet homes who are basically ignorant. But i guess some folk just cant be told can they

[Andrea 2]

how right you are farlap. of cause your point regarding pet owner's is correct and does in fact make me pretty angry. i wrote a similar thread earlier on in this thread i think. When i say breeder, i use the term very loosly. Many per owners who breed do so, through ignorance and greed and many of the pups become the casualties.

Their ignorance though, i cannot forgive.The information is out there and easy to obtain.

As i have said before, if someone expects people to buy their pups, they should be breeding the best they can.

[Guest SJM]

You guys are all missing a very important fact and that is

 

The KC are not responsible for compiling and writing up breed standards.

 

This is done by breed clubs (mostly made up of show people) at the formation of the breed and once the breed standard has been applied to the breed, it then becomes the property of the kennel club and any changes to the breed standard thereafter, have to be applied by aforementioned breed clubs etc.

 

The Kennel Club are a record keeping establishment, and yes they profit from people who breed and register pedigreed dogs, but the onus on why some breeds have ended up looking a far cry from their original state is because of the people who compile and word the breed standard, and people who show and breed their dogs and take portions of these breed standards and interpret them in a certain way, to the detriment of the breed.

 

For example, the bull terrier standard calls for an "egg shaped head" and hey presto, after a few generations of show breeders breeding from the most egg shaped headed specimens, you get a more pronounced egg shaped head and so on, and so on, until the dog is so egg shaped headed you would think a fecking chicken has layed it

 

Take a look here and its obvious its the breeders and people who take the breed standard too seriously who are to blame for the way some breeds are

 

http://www.terrierman.com/rosettestoruin.htm

 

There are many breeds where the wording of the standard leads to obsessive show breeders twisting the words to deform the breed. If a breed standard says wide head, short legs, long body, spots of a certain size, you can bet your boots breeders will go over the top trying to produce the dog with the biggest head, shortest legs, longest body and most perfect spots, and disregarding other factors such as overall health of the dog and original function. To put it mildly, they cannot see the wood for the trees!

 

So blame the KC if you like, but they are just a link in the chain, and the whole blame cant be lain at their door IMO

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

But, isn't the use of " The Kennel Club " more an acceptable generalisation? People could say, eg. " The british Police are a bunch of sods for the things they'll nick us for. " But, equelly; It's not the Police. It's the politicians who make up the laws which the Police must then enforce. So people could blame the Police wrongly. But we know what they mean .....

[BlueCoyote 0]

But, isn't the use of " The Kennel Club " more an acceptable generalisation? People could say, eg. " The british Police are a bunch of sods for the things they'll nick us for. " But, equelly; It's not the Police. It's the politicians who make up the laws which the Police must then enforce. So people could blame the Police wrongly. But we know what they mean .....

yeah really no shit!!!!

 

kennel clubs + a club consisting of individual kennels and breeders + the individual kennels and breeders making the rules and standards = well duh... a kennel club. sorry, they all gather under that tent

 

you mean i should keep an open mind out that there may be ONE breed club that ISNT ruining its breed?

hahaha Surely you jest!!!

 

and who sanctions the stinkin judges that pick the winners, eh? we may also blame them as well.

 

however thats not what we're talking about here. we're talking about ignorant owners and irresponsible breeders foisting their dogs on the public.

"Oh wow! i just loooooooove beagles!! did you see underdog!?!? i wanna beeeeeeaggle!!!!"

and then you have the asshat that buys the beagles and thinks they are breeder now and they MUST breed their dogs! doesnt matter if it came from the pet shop or mill. its a purebred! it has PAPERS!! and its preeeeettyy! the female has a pink nose and the daddy has a heartshaped spot on his back!!