At last....

[KimE 487]

3 hours ago, Alsone said:

I think the issue is it's has very little margin for error. In expert hands, there's no issue. For amateurs, espeically those with less experience, the margin for poorly placed shots is greater and thus wounded animals because the little round often doesn't deliver enough energy to kill cleanly when mis aimed. I think that's why the Police recommended it as not suitable for fox in some counties and why it also got a bad reputation against fox.

The real answer is know your limitations and if you can't hit the bullseye or close almost all of the time, choose a more suitable round for your ability (and hone your skills).

This is one real instance where some forces being reluctant to grant more powerful calibres to newbies really backfires. No-one needs .50 bmg. But granting a marginal round to someone for fox control who's very new to shooting, isn't a good idea from a welfare pov.

.17hmr are not a legal round for fox in Sweden because of to light bullets .22wmr are the smallest now, but the law were made before the .17hmr were invented.

[Deker 3,478]

2 hours ago, KimE said:

.17hmr are not a legal round for fox in Sweden because of to light bullets .22wmr are the smallest now, but the law were made before the .17hmr were invented.

We have a Home Office Guide for what calibre/ammo is suitable for what quarry.

Just like you, the last didn't include fox for the HMR as it was so new here, so it was suggested it wasn't suitable!

The latest version is happy enough with fox, but old ideas still persist in some areas!

Cartridges	Muzzle energy (ft lb)	Vermin & ground game and other small quarry(3)	Fox and other medium quarry(4)	Deer and other large quarry(5)	Dangerous Game(6)
.177-.25 Air Rifles (FAC)(1) .22 RF .17 Mach 2 .17 HMR .22 WMR .17 Remington(2) .22 Hornet(2)	>12 ft lb	Yes	No (Yes for .17 Remington & HMR, .22 Hornet and WMR – also .22 RF in certain circumstances (see paragraph 12.25))	No	No

Edited February 25, 2023 by Deker

[Stavross 15,332]

Like FH I see nothing wrong with putting another into a fox, I’ve seen them bowled over with the HMR and then get up and run ( admittedly only once or twice) likewise I’ve seen them shot with .243 and run a long way, this is why I’m not a fan of using SP’s out of the centrefire on foxes

a little story from last night. I’ve had a lad asking to come out with me and inviting me over to him for a while now, I kept fuc*king him off because he’s not really my type of chap, he’s one of these “ I’m out every night of the week, I kill everything, I’m mint, your a dickhead types” anyway he asked me if I wanted to go to a sheep farm and against my better judgement I said ok, I took my .243 and he took his, after been there for about 40 minutes I spotted a fox at the top of the field through the thermal, looking at it through the NV I could see it was skylined with no backstop as we were in a dip, the fox moved to the back of the lambing sheds so no shot, so I thought, my man was up on his sticks and shot the bloody thing at the back of the sheds no more than 60 meters, now he was using SP’s and I heard the round strike the tin sheeting on the shed, now he did kill the fox but for someone who is a professional shooter and better than everyone ( his words ) that was some of the worst shooting I have ever seen, how these people get an FAC is beyond me 

[FOXHUNTER 5,021]

1 hour ago, Stavross said:

Like FH I see nothing wrong with putting another into a fox, I’ve seen them bowled over with the HMR and then get up and run ( admittedly only once or twice) likewise I’ve seen them shot with .243 and run a long way, this is why I’m not a fan of using SP’s out of the centrefire on foxes

a little story from last night. I’ve had a lad asking to come out with me and inviting me over to him for a while now, I kept fuc*king him off because he’s not really my type of chap, he’s one of these “ I’m out every night of the week, I kill everything, I’m mint, your a dickhead types” anyway he asked me if I wanted to go to a sheep farm and against my better judgement I said ok, I took my .243 and he took his, after been there for about 40 minutes I spotted a fox at the top of the field through the thermal, looking at it through the NV I could see it was skylined with no backstop as we were in a dip, the fox moved to the back of the lambing sheds so no shot, so I thought, my man was up on his sticks and shot the bloody thing at the back of the sheds no more than 60 meters, now he was using SP’s and I heard the round strike the tin sheeting on the shed, now he did kill the fox but for someone who is a professional shooter and better than everyone ( his words ) that was some of the worst shooting I have ever seen, how these people get an FAC is beyond me 

So you were right ...a dickhead.

I've always used soft points with no problem , I've found v max worse with the bullet splashing and not killing the fox.

 

[Sausagedog 7,381]

1 hour ago, Stavross said:

Like FH I see nothing wrong with putting another into a fox, I’ve seen them bowled over with the HMR and then get up and run ( admittedly only once or twice) likewise I’ve seen them shot with .243 and run a long way, this is why I’m not a fan of using SP’s out of the centrefire on foxes

a little story from last night. I’ve had a lad asking to come out with me and inviting me over to him for a while now, I kept fuc*king him off because he’s not really my type of chap, he’s one of these “ I’m out every night of the week, I kill everything, I’m mint, your a dickhead types” anyway he asked me if I wanted to go to a sheep farm and against my better judgement I said ok, I took my .243 and he took his, after been there for about 40 minutes I spotted a fox at the top of the field through the thermal, looking at it through the NV I could see it was skylined with no backstop as we were in a dip, the fox moved to the back of the lambing sheds so no shot, so I thought, my man was up on his sticks and shot the bloody thing at the back of the sheds no more than 60 meters, now he was using SP’s and I heard the round strike the tin sheeting on the shed, now he did kill the fox but for someone who is a professional shooter and better than everyone ( his words ) that was some of the worst shooting I have ever seen, how these people get an FAC is beyond me 

Some people never cease to amaze me how they think and do things Stav. I just keep away from them, eejits 

[Stavross 15,332]

14 minutes ago, FOXHUNTER said:

So you were right ...a dickhead.

I've always used soft points with no problem , I've found v max worse with the bullet splashing and not killing the fox.

 

I know it’s each too there own and if it works for you just keep doing it, but what I found with the SP’s out of the.243 especially at relatively close range is they go in and out ( when the fox is side on ) where as the sako 70gn BT’s I use tend to put a fist size hole in them, saying that I’m using 90gn SP’s at the minute because I can’t get holed of the BT’s and they are doing the job just fine

[paulus 26]

I have to admit i am not a fan of using an HMR on Fox, The one time i tried it in the past did not end well at all. I was out on a small horsey place looking for a chicken killer just before Dusk, Next door to this place is a Very large Garden centre, Eventually i spotted the fox exiting between 2 huge glass houses and entering the property i was on, He walked half way across a small pasture and stopped next to a clump of nettles, No more than 70 yards away, I was leaning on the top of an old Oak gatepost. When i put the scope on him he was sitting face on, licking his gonads. Cross hair on the top of his head and pulled the trigger, I watched the impact expecting him to collapse but no, He ran, not only did he run, he ran the rest of the pasture before i had the opportunity to put another round in him, When i examined the body my first round had entered the middle of his skull, Passed through the brain, exited the roof of his mouth then ricocheted off his bottom jaw, breaking it. In theory he should have at most ran a few feet, But in reality he ran roughly 100 yards, That put me off using the calibre for fox`s but i have a mate who swears by them and has never had any issues. May have been just one of those things but i choose not to find out. 

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

I guess different people have a different take on what’s dead and what’s not and the after affects of a good shot to the vitals .

Ive seen hundreds of foxes do exactly what that did in the vid and twitch a bit to lie still ,totally and utterly dead .

Perhaps the 17 isn’t right for some but the lad i see use one loves his and is very confident with it .Never seen a fox get up nor owt different than when shot with the .223 .

If a few think the 17 is marginal then don’t use it on fox ,simples really .

Been out with and seen some iffy shots with all calibres so says more about the man than the weapon I’m afraid .

Anyway SD nice  vid ,very clear and good shot placement .

[Stavross 15,332]

The HMR is a very good calibre for close range foxes and that’s was the reason I put a variation in for one and told the FEO that’s what I wanted it for ( I own 2 now ), it doesn’t matter what calibre you use, at some point it isn’t going to go textbook, I’ve quite often left the centrefire’s at home and taken the 17 out foxing, I feel very confident with it out to a suitable distance, if it’s side on I like a head shot, I know some don’t but it works for me, if it’s facing me, centre of the bib is where it’s going, never in its face

[Sausagedog 7,381]

2 hours ago, paulus said:

I have to admit i am not a fan of using an HMR on Fox, The one time i tried it in the past did not end well at all. I was out on a small horsey place looking for a chicken killer just before Dusk, Next door to this place is a Very large Garden centre, Eventually i spotted the fox exiting between 2 huge glass houses and entering the property i was on, He walked half way across a small pasture and stopped next to a clump of nettles, No more than 70 yards away, I was leaning on the top of an old Oak gatepost. When i put the scope on him he was sitting face on, licking his gonads. Cross hair on the top of his head and pulled the trigger, I watched the impact expecting him to collapse but no, He ran, not only did he run, he ran the rest of the pasture before i had the opportunity to put another round in him, When i examined the body my first round had entered the middle of his skull, Passed through the brain, exited the roof of his mouth then ricocheted off his bottom jaw, breaking it. In theory he should have at most ran a few feet, But in reality he ran roughly 100 yards, That put me off using the calibre for fox`s but i have a mate who swears by them and has never had any issues. May have been just one of those things but i choose not to find out. 

That is why I never advocate head shots, I'm not say never but I'm saying I never recommend it.

In my video you can observe my shift to low neck because the shoulder is now shielding the chest. Being a neck shot and uncertain of just paralysis as soon as I can get one in the chest.

[BenBhoy 4,706]

7 hours ago, Stavross said:

I’m out every night of the week, I kill everything, I’m mint, your a dickhead types”

Is he no on here???? Sounds very familiar.... 

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

10 hours ago, FOXHUNTER said:

Wise words.

The HMR is marginal on foxes and I see nothing wrong with another insurance shot.

Personally if I was targeting foxes I would only use a centrefire ,the foxes I have shot with HMR were all opportunistic when out shooting rabbits .

 

I respect your posts mate but surely you could see that fox was dead ffs .Whether it’s shot with a .22 or a 308 a floppy fox is a dead un .

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

3 minutes ago, BenBhoy said:

Is he no on here???? Sounds very familiar.... 

You know how to hurt a man Benny .Cut to the quick I am .

[BenBhoy 4,706]

1 minute ago, foxdropper said:

You know how to hurt a man Benny .Cut to the quick I am .

Haha I actually didn't mean you Tim. Political/social differences aside, purely from a countryside point of view I tend to agree with lot of what you say. You live & work the countryside & shoot for right reasons aka not a townie that just wants to kill as much as possible.

But I'm saying no names, my new year resolution of being nice is already on thin ice!! 

[BenBhoy 4,706]

@Sausagedog was that the supplied ir torch? 

What's the daytime image like, comparing to mid range day scope?