Born Hunter 17,776 Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 08/02/2023 at 20:25, paulus said: He was basically appealing for western fighter jets, Now that is a problem, if the west supplies him with fighter jets then, the west is at war with Russia, The tanks they are due to receive are useless without air cover, We appear to be walking head first into WW3. IMO supplying combat jets would be an escalation but not strictly the difference between being at war proper or not. The interesting thing about the Ukraine invasion is that neither side is fighting with air superiority. Ground forces are largely being defended from air threats by ground based air defences. The basic Russian manoeuvre unit seems to be the Battalion Tactical Group which has an integral air defence support unit. They failed to gain air superiority and to this day won't even deploy their most advanced "stealth" jets over Ukrainian territory for fear of Ukrainian ground based air defences. Basically what I'm saying is, in this instance having fast air supporting ground units doesn't seem to be necessary to tanks being effectively used. Although.... it absolutely would be decisive if achieved! Hence the escalation. Whether the combat jet 'systems' (weapons avionics etc) the West provides would be enough to be truly game changing is yet to be seen. Can 30 year old vipers penetrate Russian S400 air defences? Will the Russians counter by being bolder with their own combat jets, i.e., deploying the Su-57 over Ukraine in a viper hunting roll? I dunno, but fears of Russia belting us for it are diminishing by the day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DIDO.1 22,844 Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 A Romanian lad has just joined my lodge. He's absolutely off his nut....he has a Russian flag in his old camper van, has a big russian fur hat and plays russian music as he drives around....he does this purely for his own amusement and to wind up his polish neighbours. How's he's not been filled in I don't know 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mC HULL 12,858 Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 did you see the little beak head sniffing rubbing his nose snorting and were sending the clown billions 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted February 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Born Hunter said: IMO supplying combat jets would be an escalation but not strictly the difference between being at war proper or not. The interesting thing about the Ukraine invasion is that neither side is fighting with air superiority. Ground forces are largely being defended from air threats by ground based air defences. The basic Russian manoeuvre unit seems to be the Battalion Tactical Group which has an integral air defence support unit. They failed to gain air superiority and to this day won't even deploy their most advanced "stealth" jets over Ukrainian territory for fear of Ukrainian ground based air defences. Basically what I'm saying is, in this instance having fast air supporting ground units doesn't seem to be necessary to tanks being effectively used. Although.... it absolutely would be decisive if achieved! Hence the escalation. Whether the combat jet 'systems' (weapons avionics etc) the West provides would be enough to be truly game changing is yet to be seen. Can 30 year old vipers penetrate Russian S400 air defences? Will the Russians counter by being bolder with their own combat jets, i.e., deploying the Su-57 over Ukraine in a viper hunting roll? I dunno, but fears of Russia belting us for it are diminishing by the day. I am not so sure, But one thing i am sure of, Is the Logistics needed to have even a squadron of our fighters over there is massive and that's using our own highly trained personnel. Now imagine newly trained Ukrainian's it would be the mother of all cock ups. The same with deploying three very different battle tanks. three times the logistical problems. The Russians appear to me to be holding back and using a softer approach than maybe the world was expecting, Preferring to try to demoralise the people into deposing the current leaders, How long this approach will last i do not know, But holding that EU summit in Kiev the other week and talk of fighter aircraft along with maybe membership of the EU is not going to be taken lightly. If you look at the reasons for this conflict, then the EU has a lot to answer for. I am not saying Russia is not to blame but i can kind of see what they are trying to achieve and more so what they are trying to avoid, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mC HULL 12,858 Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, paulus said: I am not so sure, But one thing i am sure of, Is the Logistics needed to have even a squadron of our fighters over there is massive and that's using our own highly trained personnel. Now imagine newly trained Ukrainian's it would be the mother of all cock ups. The same with deploying three very different battle tanks. three times the logistical problems. The Russians appear to me to be holding back and using a softer approach than maybe the world was expecting, Preferring to try to demoralise the people into deposing the current leaders, How long this approach will last i do not know, But holding that EU summit in Kiev the other week and talk of fighter aircraft along with maybe membership of the EU is not going to be taken lightly. If you look at the reasons for this conflict, then the EU has a lot to answer for. I am not saying Russia is not to blame but i can kind of see what they are trying to achieve and more so what they are trying to avoid, when rat face c**t was asked are we really sending planes he just talked a load a shit skirted the question i don’t think we will id say its 90 percent nato at blame if trump gets back in he will say no nato membership etc for ukraine and russia will pull out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted February 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 hour ago, mC HULL said: when rat face c**t was asked are we really sending planes he just talked a load a shit skirted the question i don’t think we will id say its 90 percent nato at blame if trump gets back in he will say no nato membership etc for ukraine and russia will pull out What a great big Helmet Lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mC HULL 12,858 Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, paulus said: What a great big Helmet Lol. what a great leader we have Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted February 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, mC HULL said: what a great leader we have The Hindus are happy, They were all celebrating the fact we have a Hindu Prime Minister. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
low plains drifter 10,617 Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 08/02/2023 at 20:55, foxdropper said: Can you imagine the line up of conscripts in this day and age ffs . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mC HULL 12,858 Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, paulus said: The Hindus are happy, They were all celebrating the fact we have a Hindu Prime Minister. wankers mate i get what the old ones mean threw the years and me old lady said it today listening to what they tell me bain at school the country is f****d i’m glad i’m on the way out and not the way in 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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