New football thread

[gnasher16 30,121]

On 02/11/2023 at 12:15, WILF said:

Fair !

I was thinking this morning, I’m in this really bizarre mindset where I’m just struggling to find any joy from a team with Moyes at the helm when actually I should actually be on cloud nine…..it’s f***ing odd mate.

I was having much the same conversation with my pal as I am with you, like you he is Home & Away, domestic and Europe and he says pretty much what you say…..he is realistic about it, the only difference is that he isn’t so much anti Moyes as he just thinks his time is probably coming to and end and somebody else could take this group of players further. 
But he is full of praise for Moyes about what he has done.

I just can’t, I hate watching his football 99% of the time…..odd.

 

 

I get it mate....i think its what they call an anti climax........we've had what for us is a brilliant few years,we always wanted to have seasons like these at Upton Park and now we've got them we're scratching our canisters saying " yeah but the footballs shit innit ".......i can hand on heart say ive really enjoyed it but i know its shit football and dont really care because i wasnt one of those fans willing to sacrifice what we had in order to get a bit of success.....i was happy with my club the way it was so my conscience is clear in that way....im sure your pal feels the same.

But lads like yourself perhaps who wasnt happy with the club we used to be,who wanted to be a big club,who wanted to win stuff etc are maybe realising what we lost in getting those things you wanted.

I make no bones about it mate and your pal might feel the same,im just riding the wave as my value/desires for the club are maybe different to yours......all that doing stuff the right way,playing football the right way etc....we sacrificed that philosophy when we moved and its precisely why chaps like myself didnt want the move......part of me feels like saying " you made your bed now stop moaning and lay in it ".....but im more polite than that 

[gnasher16 30,121]

On 02/11/2023 at 22:20, WILF said:

Maybe, the realistic answer is we don’t know what a…..let’s say, more swashbuckling type would do with such a group of talented players.

 

But how can you say that though these are not a squad of players he has stumbled across,for the most part this is a squad he has built himself to suit the game he wants to play.

[WILF 46,917]

26 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

But how can you say that though these are not a squad of players he has stumbled across,for the most part this is a squad he has built himself to suit the game he wants to play.

Yeah, that’s a fair comment as well.

But that is not to say a group of players with such obvious creative and attacking talent wouldn’t thrive better in the hands of a bloke who really wants to play to those strengths…..we don’t know because it hasn’t been tried.

If he had 5 Seamus Coleman’s in the side the Id say yeah, it’s probably as good as it can ever get but he hasn’t mate.

[WILF 46,917]

35 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

I get it mate....i think its what they call an anti climax........we've had what for us is a brilliant few years,we always wanted to have seasons like these at Upton Park and now we've got them we're scratching our canisters saying " yeah but the footballs shit innit ".......i can hand on heart say ive really enjoyed it but i know its shit football and dont really care because i wasnt one of those fans willing to sacrifice what we had in order to get a bit of success.....i was happy with my club the way it was so my conscience is clear in that way....im sure your pal feels the same.

But lads like yourself perhaps who wasnt happy with the club we used to be,who wanted to be a big club,who wanted to win stuff etc are maybe realising what we lost in getting those things you wanted.

I make no bones about it mate and your pal might feel the same,im just riding the wave as my value/desires for the club are maybe different to yours......all that doing stuff the right way,playing football the right way etc....we sacrificed that philosophy when we moved and its precisely why chaps like myself didnt want the move......part of me feels like saying " you made your bed now stop moaning and lay in it ".....but im more polite than that 

I don’t agree that having a proper set up has to be at the expense of what you stood for as a club, I think those things can easily co-exist.

Its the big dog, little dog thing….a big dog can do everything a little dog can do but the little dog can’t do everything a big dog can do….that’s all the new stadium ever meant to me mate, nothing more. 

 

[Blackmag 6,095]

Given a lot of decisions and excuses already this season I think var should be fecked of keep goal line technologies and leave the rest to the ref is it a goal is it not 3 minutes later yes it is takes that moment away and it's not improved the game it's the opposite because they talk more about var than a great performance by a team or player

[gnasher16 30,121]

14 hours ago, WILF said:

Yeah, that’s a fair comment as well.

But that is not to say a group of players with such obvious creative and attacking talent wouldn’t thrive better in the hands of a bloke who really wants to play to those strengths…..we don’t know because it hasn’t been tried.

If he had 5 Seamus Coleman’s in the side the Id say yeah, it’s probably as good as it can ever get but he hasn’t mate.

I dont think we're a difficult side to read theres nothing complicated going on Moyse wants a solid defensive unit with enough pace and precision to hit sides on the break and his team is built around and for that purpose....when sides sit off us we struggle.

As an extreme example just to make the point, nobody could have taken over the Dave Basset " Crazy Gang " side and made them into a flair team with silky skills he built and selected the players he did for a reason and it was very effective.....but probably would have got nowhere playing under Fergie or Wenger say.

Edited to add......I dont think Moyse is as negative as you make him out to be on the Allardyce " 0 " to Slaven " 100 " scale id put him about 50 in terms of entertainment/attacking style....and thats fine for as long as it works of course.

Edited November 6, 2023 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 30,121]

14 hours ago, WILF said:

I don’t agree that having a proper set up has to be at the expense of what you stood for as a club, I think those things can easily co-exist.

Its the big dog, little dog thing….a big dog can do everything a little dog can do but the little dog can’t do everything a big dog can do….that’s all the new stadium ever meant to me mate, nothing more. 

 

It was instant success,instantly becoming a big club,instant European football,instantly attracting the worlds best players......they was all the reasons you's gave for wanting the move......it never included " laying foundations " or " playing the game the right way " because we already had all that....the move was never about doing things properly if it was we wouldnt be renting our ground and training on a 2 bob bit of grass with portaloos for crying out loud 

What we stood for as a club you didnt care for,yous wanted something different....you wanted to become a big club overnight but retain all the things that made us a special club....again,i hate to say i told you so but plenty of us did.

But hey f**k it you won,you got your wish......." enjoy " as they say.

Edited November 6, 2023 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 30,121]

14 hours ago, Blackmag said:

Given a lot of decisions and excuses already this season I think var should be fecked of keep goal line technologies and leave the rest to the ref is it a goal is it not 3 minutes later yes it is takes that moment away and it's not improved the game it's the opposite because they talk more about var than a great performance by a team or player

Agreed,if we're now at the stage where we are disagreeing with VAR then whats the f****n point.....bin it.

[WILF 46,917]

58 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

It was instant success,instantly becoming a big club,instant European football,instantly attracting the worlds best players......they was all the reasons you's gave for wanting the move......it never included " laying foundations " or " playing the game the right way " because we already had all that....the move was never about doing things properly if it was we wouldnt be renting our ground and training on a 2 bob bit of grass with portaloos for crying out loud 

What we stood for as a club you didnt care for,yous wanted something different....you wanted to become a big club overnight but retain all the things that made us a special club....again,i hate to say i told you so but plenty of us did.

But hey f**k it you won,you got your wish......." enjoy " as they say.

That’s your view and I’m sure it’s true for many but, save one thing, you are completely wrong if you think that’s what I thought mate.

I don’t know where I have ever given the impression of wanting to be “the big club” but I think if you go back over anything I have ever written you will find the only thing I ever said out of your list is that it would help attract players……and I stand by that.

Paqueta could of gone to city in January if reports are to be believed and in my opinion, if we was still in our old ground he would have….let’s be honest, it was a piss hole round there and I bet he would have been off as quick as his little legs could carry him….that’s if he had signed in the first place.

Again, and I stand by this, put yourself in a players shoes, agent gets you to England, West Ham & Spurs want you…..do you want to work at Boleyn and Chadwell heath every day or The yids gaff ?……you’d have took one look at our gaff and said “f**k that” 

What I always said, and again it’s all in black and white, is that from a purely football point of view clubs need to progress in terms of infrastructure, facility’s, income and again I totally stick by that…..I bet any football lad will tell you the same.

And, with around 25,000 extra arses on seats every home game it has achieved that…..that’s not even a discussion is it mate ? 
 

What they are doing with that money is another matter and the training ground is a shocker, so that needs to be addressed as it’s essential….no good having the big flash suit and your under pants are full of holes is it mate.

What you are as a club, imho, is dictated by your identity, your ethic, your fans….those things can remain because they are not dictated by where you live, they don’t get put there by a Moyes or a Pellegrini or a stadium…..they get put there by the Tony Carrs of this world and lads from the area who are going their West Ham on a Saturday before strapping on their boots Sunday morning and then spending Sunday afternoon gassing in the pub about football.

Are you a different bloke now going your football than you was 10 years ago?, are your pals ?…..course you ain’t, the match day routine may have changed but your heart didn’t did it, your memory’s didn’t, all the things you and your pals got upto and that being a smile to your face didn’t. 
 

I never wanted seats or boxes or “hospitality suites” or corporate blocks but they are just a reality of how clubs have to find ways to finance themselves and make themselves “sky /American model of sport” friendly…..I was still drinking pissy tea and eating a burger that may or may not give me food poisoning outside the social club with my little lad and telling him tales of running out the queens at 5 to 3 to make kick off. 
I still have that and you have even more because you are a lifelong home & away man….they can’t take that away.

I’m enjoying this chat so please understand this isn’t a dig, but if you crave the atmosphere of our old ground that much you’d be going non league and dropping out the big stadium…..but you don’t…..point is, it didn’t stop you being what you have always been did it mate…..same for what a club stands for.

jmho 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by WILF

[Blackmag 6,095]

9 hours ago, gnasher16 said:

Agreed,if we're now at the stage where we are disagreeing with VAR then whats the f****n point.....bin it.

The spurs Chelsea game just strengths your point how many times does a game need to be held up with var regarding spurs what a find that keeper is he played brilliantly tonight but every credit to the lad that's took over at spurs he plays good attacking football even with 9 men and even losing kane who's had a unbelievable start in Germany hasn't really bothered them so far 

[WILF 46,917]

Postecoglu post match interview…..he absolutely nails it ! 
 

That blokes a breath of fresh air.

[Blackmag 6,095]

6 minutes ago, WILF said:

Postecoglu post match interview…..he absolutely nails it ! 
 

That blokes a breath of fresh air.

Comes across well and I agree stop start all the time for var checks is ruining the game I don't think var is going away though but I'm sure most managers and players and fans don't want it 

[WILF 46,917]

2 minutes ago, Blackmag said:

Comes across well and I agree stop start all the time for var checks is ruining the game I don't think var is going away though but I'm sure most managers and players and fans don't want it 

I don’t believe it was ever for the game or the players or the fans, it is an “Americanisation” for the play station telly nerds……VAR is an anathema to English football imho mate 

[Blackmag 6,095]

2 minutes ago, WILF said:

I don’t believe it was ever for the game or the players or the fans, it is an “Americanisation” for the play station telly nerds……VAR is an anathema to English football imho mate 

Got to agree with you there  postecogu makes a good point about accepting a refs decision so why does everything have to be checked it's like if a goal is scored then having it checked for 3 minutes takes away that moment for fans players imo var hasn't worked for the reasons I think it was originally brought in for 

[WILF 46,917]

36 minutes ago, Blackmag said:

Got to agree with you there  postecogu makes a good point about accepting a refs decision so why does everything have to be checked it's like if a goal is scored then having it checked for 3 minutes takes away that moment for fans players imo var hasn't worked for the reasons I think it was originally brought in for 

Look at our cup game with Arsenal, few talking points on the day but no VAR so everyone has moved on…..that’s football, you go out, you do battle, if you get done in you wipe your mouth, move on and try and be better.

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by WILF