jukel123 8,017 Posted May 10 Report Share Posted May 10 12 minutes ago, eastcoast said: Replacing Sir Alex was never be anything other than a poison chalice. Moyes was offered it, he had the balls to take it, and became the 1st fall guy at that club. Who will be the next? And the next and the next. Nobody is going to fill Fergies boots however much we keep searching for a saviour . It was the same when Busby retired. I was very much in favour of giving your man Howe the job. A five year contract and stick with him come rain or shine. But that's not ghe way the modern game works. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 8,017 Posted May 10 Report Share Posted May 10 1 minute ago, WILF said: I’m fairness mate, they were above him…..they all played and won everything in the biggest team in the world at the highest level and he was and still is a total f***ing nobody in football terms. You mentioned his personal accolades like manager of the moth and all that but what does that actually mean in football terms ?……it’s meaningless on the pitch mate. He tripped over one trophy in 25 year playing absolutely atrocious football…..make no mistake, we got battered in that final and I mean battered and he looked like a man in need of a lifeboat until a lad out of non league nicked a goal on the break. Lads can dress it up how they like, that’s exactly how it was. The semi final the year before was much better football, we played really well but couldn’t get it over the line so I’m not just slagging, but we played some team in Malta and scored 4 but we were bloody awful……as I said mate, the bloke has done nothing his whole career so where is all this “he is fantastic” coming from with people ? I think we would just be going round in circles if I answered your post mate. As far as lady luck goes, when Man U won the European Cup in 1999 it was daylight robbery! They humiliated us for eighty odd minutes and then we scored an undeserved goal and then another crazy goal with seconds to go. I was in my fifties at the time and remember jumping up and down like a kid. My voice was sore for a fortnight. Fine margins between heroism and history and miserable failure. That why we all love the game. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,811 Posted May 10 Report Share Posted May 10 45 minutes ago, jukel123 said: Agree mate.I hadn't heard that about players asking him what he'd won. There's loads of good managers about. I think Ten Haag is a good manager but modern day players are hard to manage and discipline .Sancho for example. Plus he should never have been allowed to sign players like Antony on his say so alone. Looks like a root and branch job at Utd and not before time. You can’t accuse the players that played under Ferguson of not being professional mate, I can’t have that……they played under one of the great no bullshit disciplinarians of the game at a club who’s culture was totally and utterly professional under that leadership…..we are talking about probably the greatest mentality set of winners in the last 30 years. A manager who wasn’t happy with how is team played 2 minutes after they won a cup final and said so. These lads were not your Paul Pogba generation, these lads were on another level in every regard. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,811 Posted May 10 Report Share Posted May 10 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jukel123 said: I think we would just be going round in circles if I answered your post mate. As far as lady luck goes, when Man U won the European Cup in 1999 it was daylight robbery! They humiliated us for eighty odd minutes and then we scored an undeserved goal and then another crazy goal with seconds to go. I was in my fifties at the time and remember jumping up and down like a kid. My voice was sore for a fortnight. Fine margins between heroism and history and miserable failure. That why we all love the game. I watched that game, and yes you looked dead and out of it…..I wouldn’t say you got battered but you looked like you had run out of ideas…..but here’s a thing, that team didn’t know when it was beaten such was the strength of the mentality driving them. I also watched the semi final when Keane got the card which meant he wouldn’t play that final, possibly the finest captains performance world football has ever seen…..Moyes will never belong in company like that, not even close. Edited May 10 by WILF 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,118 Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 (edited) On 10/05/2024 at 08:30, WILF said: So let’s have this right, if I’d said Moyes played shit football at Upton Park I’d be right, but if I say it at the Olympic Stadium I’m wrong ?…..is that how this is all working now ? Having seen my club play a lot worse football than Moyse plays i wouldnt call it shit football.....but whether its shit football or great football id prefer it was played in our spiritual home......as 99% of fans would agree. On 10/05/2024 at 08:30, WILF said: …….as I said before, if you all hate it that much don’t go, just dry your eyes and go to some football that all feels a bit better for you. Not so easy to do when automatic traits of loyalty are embedded in........dont worry you wouldnt understand. On 10/05/2024 at 08:30, WILF said: Don’t know how many times I have to say it but this is the direction premier league football has been going for years, they will take you with it or they won’t, they’ll take someone else instead. Everyone is replaceable we know that.....but not everyone can be so easily persuaded to leave......again,you wouldnt understand. On 10/05/2024 at 08:30, WILF said: Nobody is forcing you to get on that ride so stop complaining about the journey because there’s plenty of other routes you could take but you don’t want to. So complaining about the football is ok just as long as you dont complain about the journey......the journey that you yourself wanted ?....and what other routes ? this is what im stuck with now.....sorry i forgot,you wont understand. On 10/05/2024 at 08:30, WILF said: Moyes plays a shit style of football, it’s shit here and it would be shit at Borehamwood FC…….to say it has to be like that is total f***ing nonsense, what next, if the pies are cold at half time is that the fault of the move too ? Its bollocks mate. Regardless of what people like you say and how much you begrudge us our trophy the facts are these have been the glory years at West Ham,the last 4 years have been the most successful we've had probably in our life time and theres a fair chance we may never see another period like it ......nothing can come close to the sense of amusement and satisfaction i/we get from knowing that the only section of our fans who chose not to enjoy it..........................were yous,the ones who wanted it Edited May 13 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,118 Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 On 10/05/2024 at 08:33, WILF said: Leave me out pal, it was f***ing gridlock round there on match day and getting on the tube we’d all be lined up down the train track wall behind a barrier freezing our cods off for an hour or more some days……don’t make out like it’s some little well spaced out suburban area because it isn’t. As every ground in the country was......home or away football grounds are difficult places to navigate......but the Olympic Stadium was never designed to be a football stadium with huge weekly crowds on a Saturday next door to one of the busiest shopping centres in Europe.....the transport links were brilliant for the people it was designed for.....but that was not football fans ! Why are you pretending to know all about a football ground that by your own admittance you have never even been to ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,118 Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 On 10/05/2024 at 10:00, WILF said: I used to book you a sensible down to earth football lad but lately I’m not so sure mate, it’s getting more and more like talking to Max all the time. Some lads, like me, understand what the premier league product is…..we understood it years ago, hence the rise in popularity of non league football. If you took your " I am Mr.Football " head off for 5 minutes you would realise that not everyone gives a toss about " the product "......you are a fan of football yes but im almost loathe to call you a fan of West Ham because i dont really think you are .......you wont find me giving off opinions about Man Utd you wont hear me shouting about Newcastle or Liverpool or any other club relative to the Premier League and thats because i dont really give a shit about them all i care about is West Ham. On 10/05/2024 at 10:00, WILF said: We don’t dislike our club or stop being a fan, we just understand the reality and that reality is, it’s not “our club” any more it’s the premier leagues club and has been for years…..we knew it then and we know it now. Being a premier league product means certain things happen, one of those things can be getting bigger, better, improved facilities to boost your “premier league product profile”…..that why Arsenal, City, Everton and f**k knows who else have done or are doing it….Manchester United want to do it……every f***ing club wants to do it ! They have to because it’s silly not to. We all know what the product is dont make out like you're enlightening me on something i dont know mate......look, Villa Park holds 42k and that clubs having the time of their lives....while id still book them a bigger club than us your average " new " fan over the last 5 years would probably think West Ham are the bigger club......we could of stuck another 10k on the East Stand and been the same as Villa but no we wanted to be a " massive " club....and here we are. On 10/05/2024 at 10:00, WILF said: My point with the spades was that if you hadn’t realised it already then you should have realised it then, it belongs to the premier league. Ordinary football lads who just like football understand this and we are comfortable with it, it’s reality. Now you can choose to be part of it or you can choose to not be part of it, but don’t cry about your choice because they ain’t hiding anything from you….it’s what you are signing up for every time you buy a ticket. Come on mate you're going a bit silly with this now West Ham was never REALLY our club,we never owned it......as fans we're in no different position to what we ever was we just dont feel the same attachment and togetherness for obvious reasons......but dont start trying to pretend as though society issues are anything to do with your footballing ideals. On 10/05/2024 at 10:00, WILF said: Shit football is just shit football, it has absolutely nothing to do with “having to be part of it” and “it’s a catastrophe” if we don’t……no mate, it f***ing ain’t, not to lads like me because we don’t f***ing care…..we just like football and we’d be as happy watching it in League 1 Exactly ! so f**k off and leave my little club alone we was perfectly happy where we was ! Those of us who have been fans long enough have seen what happens when ambition isnt matched by the board/owners.......Harry built arguably the best side for the least money we've ever seen,chocked full of young English talent......and look what happened there ! You're speaking with a split tongue again do you want to have footballing tradition,morals and principles or do you want the win at all costs mentality that " the product " requires. On 10/05/2024 at 10:00, WILF said: But the club don’t want that and lads who want the “top flight” experience don’t want that and that’s the reality. From what I can see you all want the premier league product but you don’t want what gos with it and you want to blame your fellow fans who you claim to have an affinity with because it don’t all feel quiet right……if you don’t want everything that gos with the premier league, don’t go…..give your ticket money to real football clubs playing real football who need it more instead. Thats what plenty of us have done. Edited to add: I don’t want to be disingenuous to you with that last paragraph because I know you are involved in supporting lower level & grass roots football and I want to acknowledge that, but it was more a generalisation. I actually think you have over thought this so much that you have confused yourself with what it is you actually want from your football club.....again,i think lads like you are better off just booking yourself as football fans who maybe have an affinity for a certain club.......i dont think you truly support West Ham or have any connection to the area or the people.....you dont enjoy the whole " footie day " thing which is fine....but lads like you seem to have stuck your noses in the air and look down on who and what this club has always been and for me and lads like me no amount of this convenient " the product " nonsense can cover up the fact that yous got what yous wanted and then decided you wanted something else.......again the only comfort for chaps like me is that the only fans who havent enjoyed the most successful time in the clubs recent history are the people who wanted it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,118 Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 On 10/05/2024 at 11:13, WILF said: And fans want to fall out over this bloke ?…….f***ing hell like ! This comment on its own could have saved me the last half hour smashing f**k out of my keyboard ! Wilf if you seriously think West Ham fans have at any point fallen out over David Moyse then with every respect to you....you just havent got a clue whats going on at this club Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,811 Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 4 hours ago, gnasher16 said: This comment on its own could have saved me the last half hour smashing f**k out of my keyboard ! Wilf if you seriously think West Ham fans have at any point fallen out over David Moyse then with every respect to you....you just havent got a clue whats going on at this club Well, I’ve said what I have to say and there is no point going round the houses. All academic now because the bloke is history and there’s a new bloke to look at…..see how he sets up but that conversation is a season and a couple of transfer windows away. Im not particularly excited but I’m not down in the dumps either, anything better than ordinary will be a bonus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackmag 6,089 Posted May 13 Author Report Share Posted May 13 3 hours ago, WILF said: Well, I’ve said what I have to say and there is no point going round the houses. All academic now because the bloke is history and there’s a new bloke to look at…..see how he sets up but that conversation is a season and a couple of transfer windows away. Im not particularly excited but I’m not down in the dumps either, anything better than ordinary will be a bonus. I agree with Nash you only need to look at the reception he got yes his game isn't pep style football but he's still a manager that gets results I think his win percentage is up there with the best but he can walk away with his chin held high having got westham a cup and giving them a few seasons in Europe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,118 Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 (edited) Stone me whats this a second wind....i didnt even clock this earlier. On 10/05/2024 at 18:10, WILF said: Just reading back through a few of these posts and caught this one again. I have not risen at all to the little jibes and insults and all that caper because I’m a big believer in not pissing on people, no matter what, who have been polite to you and kind with their offers. I dont do jibes and insults,if you've taken something ive said in that way then its on you,either point it out and we'll discuss it or else why bring it up. On 10/05/2024 at 18:10, WILF said: So I say this without any animosity at all, but who the f***ing hell do you and all the fans like you think you are ? You ain't all the be all and end all,last word in everything West Ham related,you have no more ownership over what it means to be a West Ham fan than the next bloke. Lifelong dedicated paying supporters from the area, in the main.....such people being the mainstay of a clubs regular support hold value amongst what ive heard you term " proper football lads " up and down the country from fan to fan.....ask them ! On 10/05/2024 at 18:10, WILF said: And talking to people about sacrificing their morals for a trophy, no mate, I didn’t……you all did that. You hated it that much that you all still forked out to watch it. You all protested so hard against getting a f**k you from spades that you forked out 200 sovs a week to get it……I didn’t, I got called all the c**ts under the sun for refusing to watch it. Don’t talk to me about morals at football because you will all endure any shit, any insult to have your day out at “the best league in the world”……I won’t do that, I won’t even watch ! The fact you are trying to bring political and society issues into a debate about West Ham leaving Upton Park suggests you are clutching at straws somewhat....sacrificing morals for a trophy was in reference to our clubs footballing history and traditions not whether you like the darkies or not. On 10/05/2024 at 18:10, WILF said: Yous are telling lads with vastly superior knowledge of the actual front line of the game what’s what about how you have to play and what you have to do to “compete in the best league in the world” when half of you probably wouldn’t know a 4-3-3 from a double pivot if they ran you over in the away bus from Manchester City ! Most of you have sat on your arse and watched football for 40 year and now you know the intricate ins and outs of what it takes to play a game of football…..no mate, you don’t ! telling lads with vastly superior knowledge ....who ?....you ? More than once on here ive started a sentence saying having never played the game i dont feel im entitled to an opinion about tactics but that doesnt mean i know or understand any less than 90% of other fans up and down the country....or does having done a coaching course mean i should fall at your feet......in depth tactics is not my thing,i have a couple of handy pals who operated at the highest level of the game if i want to know something but i tend to take the attitude that pros are pros and you/me are not for very good reason. On 10/05/2024 at 18:10, WILF said: Absolute snobs the lot of you mate, crying your eyes out and lecturing people about what they should think about their own football club. So ive now got a geezer who sits in an armchair at home looking down his nose with contempt mocking his own fans in Prague celebrating winning their first trophy in 40 years calling us " snobs ".......right ok. On 10/05/2024 at 18:10, WILF said: you all know that you don’t really care, you just want to “go there and have your day out” and f**k the football really. Twice a week every week you mean.......and coming from an armchair fan............ On 10/05/2024 at 18:10, WILF said: I ain’t bothered if that what you all want to do but don’t all point fingers as your excuse and say it’s your fault, just go your football and shut up about it……or don’t …….easy innit ! Nobody has pointed fingers at you Wilf,ok i might use the term " yous " in a blanket form.....but without wishing to sound impolite lads like you dont really matter.....you are not an active fan,you was never there to either protest or not protest the move the whole " we will never forgive you " thing was directed towards active fans who stood on one side or the other.....its the different between active support and tv watchers.......the dough we pay to watch West Ham play football we pay to West Ham Football Club......the dough you pay to watch West Ham play football you pay to Sky tv......i could just as easy say to you if you dont like it just turn your telly off.....easy innit ! On 10/05/2024 at 18:10, WILF said: See it all the time on various fan forums and such like, and no it ain’t “the vast majority of fans” it’s a 50/50 split……does me in. Yes because all the millions of people who go on fan forums are hardcore ever present club fans aint they.....if a lad like you in another country is now telling me that the club/area i live and breathe is 50/50 when in reality its now pretty much 95/5.....then you might as well tell me anything you like and expect me to believe it......the amount of Hammers fans that with hindsite dont regret the move is tiny,you are in a tiny minority whether you believe that or not makes no difference. Look,i say again Wilf you are completely out of touch with most West Ham fans,fans who still have a connection to the club/area that you dont have......the debates you and i are having now ive been having with fans for 8 years.....the only reason it has now become a topic for lads like you is it gets up your nose that we've had the best period in the clubs recent history and ended up bantering our own fans with the " massive " stuff to dig yous out over your choices backfiring in such a spectacular way. Im trying not to go on too much about some of the obvious hypocrisies in your football views as it probably just comes down to a basic difference in personality........but myself as an active fan and a " you have to be present to protest " type in any walk of life this great passion and determination you have for subjects and West Ham in particular just comes across as false passion being that you never actively support the club,you are not from the area,have contempt for fans etc etc....but each to their own. Edited May 14 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,811 Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 9 hours ago, Blackmag said: I agree with Nash you only need to look at the reception he got yes his game isn't pep style football but he's still a manager that gets results I think his win percentage is up there with the best but he can walk away with his chin held high having got westham a cup and giving them a few seasons in Europe I’ve never said any different mate, all I have ever said is that I think his style of football is shite and that I don’t know why everyone raves about a bloke who has achieved 1 thing in 25 year playing shite football….it’s just what I think. Im sure he will be inundated with offers from other clubs. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,118 Posted May 15 Report Share Posted May 15 (edited) On 13/05/2024 at 23:11, Blackmag said: I agree with Nash you only need to look at the reception he got yes his game isn't pep style football but he's still a manager that gets results I think his win percentage is up there with the best but he can walk away with his chin held high having got westham a cup and giving them a few seasons in Europe Moyse got the reception he deserved from West Ham supporters......the debates amongst fans was never about David Moyse or what style of football we play it was about a certain section of our fans being willing to give up everything we held dear for the sake of winning trophies and moving to the next level......yet having now done that some are trying to blame David Moyse and his style of football for bringing them exactly what they wanted.....if it was Millwall we'd be rolling round laughing at them ! Edited May 15 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch 267 Posted May 15 Report Share Posted May 15 2 hours ago, gnasher16 said: Moyse got the reception he deserved from West Ham supporters......the debates amongst fans was never about David Moyse or what style of football we play it was about a certain section of our fans being willing to give up everything we held dear for the sake of winning trophies and moving to the next level......yet having now done that some are trying to blame David Moyse and his style of football for bringing them exactly what they wanted.....if it was Millwall we'd be rolling round laughing at them ! He did and he deserved a decent send off. You can debate his style and it may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but he fulfilled his brief and probably overachieved. I’m 40 and he’s gave me and generations of fans some of the best memories - beating Seville, Lyon, that magical night in Prague, the open top parade around Newham etc which will stay with me a lifetime it run its course and it is the right time for him to move on, but he should leave with respect and gratitude How can anyone knock him for saving us from relegation twice, stabilising the club, finishing 6th, 7th, 14th, and 9th or 10th in four seasons, getting to the QF and SF of the europa league, winning the europa conference? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pesky1972 5,251 Posted May 15 Report Share Posted May 15 It’s coming! Said on here years ago that I see a day that we see say a Man U v Arsenal league fixture played in Vegas, or Chelsea v Liverpool live from Beijing in the middle of the night. The more that club ownership moves from people who actually support the club, the less football will give a fcuk about the real supporters. Fifa exploring impact of playing domestic matches abroad WWW.BBC.CO.UK Fifa are examining the impact of moving domestic competitive matches... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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