8 weeks.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

1 minute ago, Franks dad said:

Never seen a litter together after 8 weeks so will take your word on that mate  

If the litter is to be kept and assessed mate then there is no choice but keep them together with space .Not many have the room to separate pups on premises .

[jeemes 4,453]

We have kept whole or near whole litters. The longer the pups are on that milk if its flowing the better I say, and pups learning with each other, but you need space and your time. most people are keen to get pups out at 6weeks because they are surplus, but if you are wanting to test your breeding then you need to hang on to them.

[mC HULL 12,238]

4 hours ago, foxdropper said:

Agreed mate .I’d never keep a bitch  with pups against her will at any age .

Ive had a bitch disown a litter in the first two hours .You can’t force a bitch into being a mother .How I do it is let the bitch come and go as she pleases .

If she’s maternal she will want them to suckle way after they need to but if she’s really had enough I’m ok with that .There’s no hard and fast rules either way .I think too many people poke about and keep the lot awake for too long in the early stages .Most bitches I’ve bred have slept most the day after whelping .The pup swap needs to happen that day if it’s going to .

i’ve never seen the swap first day it’s been after a week o so when one is not getting enough pushed out and the other bitch has a few spare teets mate 

[jeemes 4,453]

Also I think in the old days big litters were split or cut down. You are maybe culling the best but you'll never know. For Greyhounds its the magic 6, and I would say between 4 and 6 depending on the bitch. A reduced litter means the bitch isnt getting her guts pulled out and she easily produces plenty of top quality milk that will last well into 8/9 weeks, weaning from 5 weeks. Ive never had a litter bigger than 6 and never had problems weaning from 5 weeks and supplement feeding til 8 weeks. This is all for people breeding dogs for themselves and not for sale. If you are breeding for sale it pays to keep more and let them go as early as possible I suppose, or if you are tight for room or time, but the latter will be a better nourished pup ready to be outside and learning to gallop at around 10 weeks. Its like plants, the big healthy seedlings usually do better for having the best start in life. You cannot better or equal bitches milk, and time spent with siblings is all learning imo.

 

[Daniel cain 45,123]

bitches do best with 4/6 pups from my own personal experiences..smaller the litter,the stronger the pups imo

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

5 hours ago, jeemes said:

Also I think in the old days big litters were split or cut down. You are maybe culling the best but you'll never know. For Greyhounds its the magic 6, and I would say between 4 and 6 depending on the bitch. A reduced litter means the bitch isnt getting her guts pulled out and she easily produces plenty of top quality milk that will last well into 8/9 weeks, weaning from 5 weeks. Ive never had a litter bigger than 6 and never had problems weaning from 5 weeks and supplement feeding til 8 weeks. This is all for people breeding dogs for themselves and not for sale. If you are breeding for sale it pays to keep more and let them go as early as possible I suppose, or if you are tight for room or time, but the latter will be a better nourished pup ready to be outside and learning to gallop at around 10 weeks. Its like plants, the big healthy seedlings usually do better for having the best start in life. You cannot better or equal bitches milk, and time spent with siblings is all learning imo.

 

Spot on Jeemes .

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

5 hours ago, Daniel cain said:

bitches do best with 4/6 pups from my own personal experiences..smaller the litter,the stronger the pups imo

To a point yes mate but any less than 4 I’ve found the bitch is again at risk of mastitis .I’ve had two on a bitch ,one from another litter gifted from miles away and just about kept her healthy but not ideal .

Ive culled pups to keep 6 and I’ve also fostered others when conditions are right but you need the maternal bitches for this to happen .

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

14 hours ago, mC HULL said:

i’ve never seen the swap first day it’s been after a week o so when one is not getting enough pushed out and the other bitch has a few spare teets mate 

Fair enough mate but I’m talking about evening out litters that aren’t supporting the bitch .ie too many or too few and best time to do this is that first day when the bitch  is tired .To be honest I’m a bit confused about your saying the bitch wont take to it as every single bitch  I’ve ever bred would of let a rat suckle if it wanted too .Only once seen   pup aggression by a bitch in 30 odd years ,quite the opposite .Last but one litter I bred ,the bitches sister had a false pregnancy and fed the pups  as well ,carrying them into her kennel under the nose of the birth bitch who just went and brought them back when she felt like it .Only ever known one bitch to have a nasty streak towards pups and she was spayed and given away .

 

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

18 hours ago, jeemes said:

We have kept whole or near whole litters. The longer the pups are on that milk if its flowing the better I say, and pups learning with each other, but you need space and your time. most people are keen to get pups out at 6weeks because they are surplus, but if you are wanting to test your breeding then you need to hang on to them.

The truth

[Daniel cain 45,123]

1 hour ago, foxdropper said:

To a point yes mate but any less than 4 I’ve found the bitch is again at risk of mastitis .I’ve had two on a bitch ,one from another litter gifted from miles away and just about kept her healthy but not ideal .

Ive culled pups to keep 6 and I’ve also fostered others when conditions are right but you need the maternal bitches for this to happen .

I've never personally kept more than 6 on any dog I've bred...I've helped my brother's out a few times,had his 1 load of Frenchie pups in with my old digging bitch(having a phantom and producing milk) when his dog had 14 pups the once ,strange because his 2 bitches are sisters,1 throws 8/12 pups the other 4 everytime...even when using same stud dog..the bitch that throws 4 refuses to feed pups,so they been  bottle feed both times ...

looking back,don't think I've ever had a bitch that was funny with another bitches pups...found sisters and older siblings in the box cleaning pups when the dams out emptying herself and having 5 mins peace...had 2 black dogs( I don't f***ing miss) ,you couldn't trust with anything,just wanted to kill everything ...why I prefer to keep bitches and only 1 dog in the yard at a time....

[jukel123 7,957]

When I was a kid we had a couple of terrier sisters. They would suckle each others pups, even when one didn't have pups. They would suckle baby rabbits and kittens too. Don't wild members of the dog family share the rearing of pups?  They will regurgitate food for pups which are not their own. I had a springer bitch which would regurgitate food. The smell of it was something else. The pups cries would stimulate her to regurgitate.

 Some s1uckling women will release milk when their baby cries. Fairly spurts out. Trust me on this one.

[TonyT 1,426]

Just my opinion 

for me get the pup as soon as it’s weaned.

keep it with you when ever you can

im self employed so as soon as they arrive they are with me.

 

the best two terriers I’ve owned came at 5 week.

terriers do mature quick and I knew that it was a couple of week early but they did everything I wanted and more.

had a Bullx from 6 week and she was fine 

If you’ve Time to invest , work etc permitting 

sooner is better for me 

ATB Tony  

[paulus 26]

Depends on the bitch to be honest my old lurcher bitched nursed the pups till they were about 3 weeks then basically left them to it, only returning morning and night to feed and clean them, The last Terrier bitch i bred, we had to take her out as she was starting to get very sore, she was even trying to suckle and clean there mess up at 8 weeks. 

[Black neck 15,875]

1 hour ago, jukel123 said:

When I was a kid we had a couple of terrier sisters. They would suckle each others pups, even when one didn't have pups. They would suckle baby rabbits and kittens too. Don't wild members of the dog family share the rearing of pups?  They will regurgitate food for pups which are not their own. I had a springer bitch which would regurgitate food. The smell of it was something else. The pups cries would stimulate her to regurgitate.

 Some s1uckling women will release milk when their baby cries. Fairly spurts out. Trust me on this one.

[keepdiggin 9,559]

Bit of topic but the last bitch I bred delivered a pup a week after the rest of the litter were born