Deer Management

[Deker 3,478]

Well, a lot of it makes sense, but there is a strong suggestion that everyone who shoots deer will need to be qualified!  Presumably DSC, unless they come up with something different.  I have never been a fan of DSC, (if you want to do it fine, but mandatory, NO!) and I know a lot of Gamekeepers on Large High Profile Estates that don't have them, so how will all that work then?   

Deer management strategy consultation .pdf (defra.gov.uk)

[FOXHUNTER 5,021]

I see BASC have already got their snout in the trough and recommending to government that they already train a lot of deer stalkers and can continue to do so. 

Training is good for beginners but to get the deer population reduced they need to rely on experienced deer stalkers and not novices.

Allowing males to be shot all year round will not solve the problem its females that need to be shot heavily. Doe season should be extended to achieve this along with night shooting without the need to get a licence.

The problem is though what to do with all this excess venison that nobody wants ?

Another problem is that a lot of landowners will not allow deer to be shot creating sanctuaries for them .

The policy needs a lot of thought if they seriously want the deer population reducing with an estimated population of 2 million .

 

 

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

All the above
Night shooting should be a given .No different to shooting foxes and we all do that without training .
I have the DSC 1 but tbh there wasn’t much new to me .I really hope they arnt going to allow fresh shooters to do  any course then be allowed out on deer .Some sort of experience time served has got to be the way forward in conjunction with a training course .

If I’ve read that paper correctly they are pushing farmers to set up syndicates which sort of fecks  the job up .Everybody knows who the deer killers are in any area .These lads should be paid to do their thing with no boundaries ,no night restrictions ,just allocated areas for each team .The venison issue is way beyond me but I’m sure it could be turned into dog food minimum .

I was at a place last weekend trying for a fallow pricket .We saw then stalked in but one doe spooked and they were off next door where it’s a sanctuary .These farmers ,landowners should be prosecuted for harbouring fallow herds .

[shovel leaner 7,650]

I agree with the previous posts , but also the  way i see it is there are stalkers out there who control vast swathes of prime deer country . They have groomed the land owners either by charm or money or both . And made themselves and their opinions on deer control all that landowners and forum members listen to . Hey spout their opinions about night shooting and seasons to anyone who will listen . 
        But they are nearly all recreational stalkers and not controlling their numbers properly. Control means that you look at an area of land and work out what size population that area can sustain without damage to crops and trees . If the population is above that level then they are not under control , simple as that . It’s nearly always the case that prime bucks with good heads are the most desirable target, and nobody wants to shoot the does and youngsters . Attitudes to deer need to change . The forestry commission sets cull targets to stalkers , but very often if they apply pressure the deer move on to non commission ground where they can’t be controlled. With land ownership comes a responsibility, and land owners should be penalised for not controlling deer numbers , but it will never happen. 
          As for the DSC’s it’s not something I’ve been involved with . I’ve heard good and bad . I suppose on balance it’s better to be self regulated than have something that has been dreamed up in Westminster . But I think that there should also be more mentoring, but who wants to do that ? The kind of people who want to do that are precisely the people who shouldn’t do it . 

Edited August 26, 2022 by shovel leaner

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

I’ve mentored 3 lads John .

[FOXHUNTER 5,021]

I've mentored 2 over the years , passing on experience and knowledge .

Pretty satisfying  when people actually listen and learn.

 

[shovel leaner 7,650]

30 minutes ago, foxdropper said:

I’ve mentored 3 lads John .

Well hopefully you have put them on the right track . But I’ve got a mate who stalks and has a DSC deer management certificate. But his attitude to deer and mine are poles apart . He has a very romantic and overly protective view on deer . 
                   We have to ask ourselves why there is a road traffic accident every 7 minutes in this country involving deer and all the losses to agriculture profits and forestry damage , and deer population through the roof.  
         I can see a similar situation with contractors being used , “badger cull style “ . With parcels of land being assigned and cull targets . I think it’s probably the only way to get on top of them now . 

             

 

         
 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by shovel leaner

[FOXHUNTER 5,021]

11 hours ago, shovel leaner said:

         I can see a similar situation with contractors being used , “badger cull style “ . With parcels of land being assigned and cull targets . I think it’s probably the only way to get on top of them now . 

             

 

         
 

 

 

The only way numbers can be reduced drastically is contractors given unrestricted access to a large area and night shooting and no seasons.

Dont think it will happen so the problem will remain.

[shovel leaner 7,650]

Just now, FOXHUNTER said:

The only way numbers can be reduced drastically is contractors given unrestricted access to a large area and night shooting and no seasons.

Dont think it will happen so the problem will remain.

Money talks at the end of the day.  Look at the financial losses attributed to deer . Probably more than Bovine TB . I wouldn’t of thought that the Badger cull would have developed the way it has.  The problem is that the only ones protesting about the Badgers were Brian May and a load of unwashed vegans . With the deer , they have a lot of allies , among landowners and shooters . 

[FOXHUNTER 5,021]

They either want the population reduced or they dont ....pretty simple to me if they are serious about it they need to not fanny on and get on with the job whatever it takes.

 

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

13 hours ago, shovel leaner said:

Well hopefully you have put them on the right track . But I’ve got a mate who stalks and has a DSC deer management certificate. But his attitude to deer and mine are poles apart . He has a very romantic and overly protective view on deer . 
                   We have to ask ourselves why there is a road traffic accident every 7 minutes in this country involving deer and all the losses to agriculture profits and forestry damage , and deer population through the roof.  
         I can see a similar situation with contractors being used , “badger cull style “ . With parcels of land being assigned and cull targets . I think it’s probably the only way to get on top of them now . 

             

 

         
 

 

 

I don’t think the fact anyone has DSC has any bearing on their approach to deer John .You are either a killer or you arnt .

Roe are very easy to manage ,fallow not so and it’s these that need addressing really .

Local estate numbers have built up again to numbers I’ve not seen for years .Can’t drive anywhere within the estate without seeing them , stopping for them or hearing them crashing through undergrowth enmasse .

Muntjac too are fairly hard to manage due to their liking for very dense cover .Its a  shoot on sight for me .

The Dorset sika would be fine to manage if only landowners didn’t see them as pound notes .Same for a lot of places I guess .

Badger cull style shooting including night licenses is the way to go but like Mark said aint never going to happen .Too much crap associated with money and the good old boys club 

[FOXHUNTER 5,021]

26 minutes ago, foxdropper said:

You are either a killer or you arnt .

 

And that my friend hits the nail on the head.

If me and you had to do the job I know we would get great results.

It's the fact that the deer world is full of romantisists and place deer on a pedestal but like all animals needs management not allowing it get to pest proportions where disease and starvation step in to do the job for us.

All land should be opened up to a register of competent, experienced stalkers to crack on.

[sussex 5,777]

On 27/08/2022 at 13:57, FOXHUNTER said:

And that my friend hits the nail on the head.

If me and you had to do the job I know we would get great results.

It's the fact that the deer world is full of romantisists and place deer on a pedestal but like all animals needs management not allowing it get to pest proportions where disease and starvation step in to do the job for us.

All land should be opened up to a register of competent, experienced stalkers to crack on.

Alas I know plenty of experienced stalkers , some of thirty year standing , but leaving it to them would show scant progress .You need competent , willing and enthusiastic people , when I was culling I eventually built up a small dependable group of shooters who turned up when asked , or where ringing me for times even when it was freezing cold , pouring rain or stupid o’clock in the morning , people who stuck to the plan , stayed where put , and shot what they were told to shoot .
The amount of people begging to come out that cried off when invited was unbelievable and for all manor of wet lame excuses , from its raining to my mother in law is visiting to the kids got measles ..all the last thing you need to hear when it’s 5am and two people let you down ..

Mentoring …at least five , people that shot their first deer ..lost count ..Whilst I enjoyed getting novices going on deer,  mixing it with paid clients and novices I found to be counter productive , by the time you get someone on an absolute stone bunker of a chest shot , on your own you would have likely dropped two or three before the bunch realised what was happening ..

Thats the difference between stalking and culling ..I was content to leave any good fallow heads where they were , we were numbers driven , the cull plan was worked out and every effort was geared to achieving it ..

 

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Proper job Rich .

[shovel leaner 7,650]

Another issue that we have faced is what to do with the shot deer ? During the whole lockdown debacle. I was talking to the game dealer I use and he had 5 tonnes of frozen venison that he couldn’t shift and wouldn’t take another deer , even if I gave it to him . Restaurants , pubs and hotels were his main outlet. Now things have opened up it’s slightly improved,  but  I was talking to someone the other day and I didn’t know this but nearly all the country pubs near me are up for sale and are struggling. They reckon that 70% of pubs are going to go to the wall in the not too distant future. Simply , people have got out of the habit of going out for a meal and drink , and are buying booze in a supermarket and have leaned to cook during lockdown. People will eat  venison if it’s on a menu , but supermarkets aren’t buying it in anything like the volume of the pub trade . I found a guy in Wales who makes burgers and sausage. He was supplying the valley’s BBQs and he gave me some back . But that’s small scale . I don’t know what the answer is but it would be a shame if it went for dog food . 
              I’ll tell you what would help , if the BBC county file , did a proper episode on the problem of deer in this country and encouraged its largely metropolitan viewership to try venison , “ save the countryside , eat venison “ !!!