First Bull X -

[SavantK9 105]

Wanting to document the experiences I’ve had with my first Bull X. Received him just shy of 2yo due to lack of work. First Cross, APBT (OFRN/Redboy) x Heavy Greyhound with a touch of borzoi/wolfhound. 

This is my first Bull X and first sighthound taken in as an adolescent dog. I’ve had two previous deer/wolf x greys as puppies. So obtaining a dog raised elsewhere is quite different for me. 

Upon arrival I can tell he was a very immature dog with a lot of puppy in him, he was relatively shy and quite reserved socially with me for the first few weeks, but surprisingly confident and self assured in new environments/public/working dog competitions (I have a k9 bitework background) and used a weekend trial as an evaluative tool. 
 

I’ve worked with a few hunting stags that environmentally were extremely nervous and timid in new places. Cowarding, insecure - so to me - environmental stability and confidence is extremely important in the breed types. If new things “scare you” or make you nervous and you don’t recover quickly - I have no use for you. 
 

pictured is him among arrival  

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by SavantK9
Updated post details

[SavantK9 105]

The bonding process felt slow. Very litter interaction out of the boy. Little play, despite not being heavy handed. I think the rehoming transition was “hard on him”. Lots of hand walking, got him up to date on deworming schedule, and shots. He was calm and easy to manage in the home. Spent life as a house dog, so was never really “tapped”. No real foundation or experience laid. 
 

 

hand walks and diet began to take hold and started to put some muscle on the dog. But found myself discouraged. Couldn’t get him to play with a flirt pole with a coon hide on the end, he wouldn’t even chase white tailed deer, would just get “prey locked” and freeze up until they took off running…

I was at a loss, not quite understanding a sighthound who was uninterested in not pursuing game. Was it lack of early exposure? Was he simply a cull? 

 

 

[SavantK9 105]

What I began to realize was he needed the “deer to start the action” - if I caused them to run he was ready to go. I needed him to learn that he could initiate the chase. A few run ins with the local herd and he began to get the picture.  That he himself could prompt the action. I started to become suprised by his speed, considering he’s half Apbt. 
 

I had decided that he’d get 6mo after arrival to show me something. The fact that some progress was better than zero progress was a plus. Figured the experience would make me a better handler. 
 

I’m coming from a terrier and bull/molosser background. My experience with stags was limited to raising pups and I never had issue, but he was an interesting case. Not to mention one of the better lookin dogs I had come across - its not a popular cross in the states. 
 

A few young rabbits, and even a groundhog I learned the desire to chase what’s there, but he was all play. Catch, toss em around, let them run away, catch them again. The “penny” hadn’t dropped, and that killer instinct was no where to be found. I’d let him finish the rabbits, and exposed him to the ground hog - thinking larger quarry with more “fight” could spur some action out of him. 
 

sure he took off after it. But groundhogs tend to stand their ground, don’t have much of a neck, and aren’t afraid to lay teeth. The lurcher took off, ground hog turned around and nailed him right in the nose. The lurcher stood there confused, simply trying to sniff it. He didn’t run away scared, handled the “bite well” but was more curious than anything. 
 

I’m familiar with a few strains of gamedog - and was aware that some of the OFRN stuff are completely worthless until 3. Was hopeful that this might be the case. But the lack of raw “animal aggression” had me concerned. 
 

I

[SavantK9 105]

By this time, it’s apparent the dog began to get more comfortable with me. Enthusiastically playing with the flirt pole and tugging with the raccoon hide on the end. During hand walks he’d frequently seek game, looking for the deer hot spots and perk up. I could regularly slip him and have him take off - his chances of success were slim - hardwood forests aren’t conducive to lurchers running flat out, and after a good chase he’d work his way back to me where I’d shower him with praise. 
 

Felt like we were actually forging a relationship.  He’d earn off leash privileges and I could trust him enough to hit a few hunting grounds with some fellow terrier men.  By this time, the weather has changed, he’s beginning to put on some size and raccoon season is upon us. I figured - perfect. He’s been improving, actively pursuing game - maybe all he needs is a raccoon hanging off his jaw to spark up. 
 

First outing - we didn’t find anything. A lot of him and the young Patterdale getting “familiar” with eachother. By this time they are both around 2yo. Young males testing eachother a bit. The lurcher would find moments where he’d get “lost in the sauce” and start viewing the Patterdale as a prey item. Eyes would glaze over and the chase would get a little more serious. 
 

our second outing they had an easier time ignoring eachother. Ranging out and seeing what the forest had to offer. The Patterdale hit on a coon denned up in a tree trunk. The coon hopped out. Both the Lurcher and the Patterdale were in pursuit 

[SavantK9 105]

Unfortunately the coon comes straight for me and my foot connects with the lurchers face, right when he opens his mouth to engage with the coon. 
 

here I am hoping I’m not ruining the experience for a young dog. He obviously respects me but isn’t pursuing as hard after the swift accidental kick to the face.  In the last image you can see the lurcher recoil backwards 

the Patterdale dispatches the coon and suddenly gets possessive - attacking the lurcher. To our surprise the lurcher responds with astounding violence while we laughed “where tf was that on the coon” - perhaps this is a dog who needs to take things personally? I was hoping the coon would have “woken him up” but it seems the Patterdale may have taken its place

(shortly after he arrived he survived a kennel accident with my other two dogs and dished out some damage - I knew he wasn’t soft. Granted he had to be rescued - but he held his own in a revealing accident at home) 

what does one do about a slow starter? 
how much time do folks give dogs? 
he’s a project - I personally am in no rush

Edited April 27, 2022 by SavantK9

[Samrog 425]

im personally no help to you but i enjoyed reading and seeing this. Good luck, hope the dog comes good. Only thing i can say is id stick with my dog for rest of his life even if he was a jacker but i understand thats no use to some people. All the best. 

[mackem 26,416]

Very interesting, hope you get him on deer. 

[SavantK9 105]

11 minutes ago, Samrog said:

im personally no help to you but i enjoyed reading and seeing this. Good luck, hope the dog comes good. Only thing i can say is id stick with my dog for rest of his life even if he was a jacker but i understand thats no use to some people. All the best. 

Appreciate the kind words. The better half has taken a liking to him, and she’s all too familiar as to where “washes” go. So he’ll likely stick around. 
 

curious to see the forums feedback. I’m very familiar with OFRN game lines - so hoping as we approach 3 this fall, he’ll click like like they do. I’m also not familiar with heavy greyhound influenced lurchers - but do know that some of these apbts go from worthless to “full on” once “maturity hits”. Curious to see if he’ll follow the same trajectory. 
 

im noticing now - that more of the bull influence is coming out. He’s interacting with the environment more - tugging and engaging with sticks that are just sitting there. His tug, thrash and bite style has really intensified and he’s putting on mass. He’s very dominant at play - very much bull like when engaging with other dogs and I can see him spurring trouble easily - egging on engagement  

 

pictured is him with some of the “winter weight”  as sprint approaches I’ll slim him down but he’s a solid sized dog  close to 36kg

Edited April 27, 2022 by SavantK9

[SavantK9 105]

4 minutes ago, mackem said:

Very interesting, hope you get him on deer. 

Those white tail are pretty large - he gets VERY close, the deer are almost surprised he covers as much ground as he does. He’s gotten teeth on one but was shaken off the leg hold. Female white tails in the Eastern US are typically 40-44kg - a lot for one dog to hold solo 

[mr moocher 930]

nice looking dog my one and only pitbull x was the same in he would do it with rabbits chase and catch them if they were moving but he would kill them every time he caught them one pop through the eye but he was a f****r for anything big,and small dogs,im like you into bull breeds and it took me a few mths to adjust to him,and him to me,he was very fast on the straight not so hot on the turn i would imagine something like a whippet would be quicker,id put him on something again im sure hell come good,heres my old boy hes old in the picture,lunatic for what he was,thanks for the story really enjoyed it all the best with your dog

[D Lloyd 2,790]

1 hour ago, SavantK9 said:

Those white tail are pretty large - he gets VERY close, the deer are almost surprised he covers as much ground as he does. He’s gotten teeth on one but was shaken off the leg hold. Female white tails in the Eastern US are typically 40-44kg - a lot for one dog to hold solo 

Some interesting readying and pics mate nice to see something different . as for weight of deer compared to your dog I'd not worry about him getting kicked off ones he now's his job .atb

[SavantK9 105]

It’s never for “lack of effort” as much as it’s “refinement of skills”. I’ll have to get him out with some other lurchers and see if he pieces things together quicker with a team. They learn better from eachother - but there’s something to be said for a dog who learns by themself IMO. 

[mC HULL 12,487]

34 minutes ago, SavantK9 said:

It’s never for “lack of effort” as much as it’s “refinement of skills”. I’ll have to get him out with some other lurchers and see if he pieces things together quicker with a team. They learn better from eachother - but there’s something to be said for a dog who learns by themself IMO. 

them white tails can’t be caught if you believe what you hear on here a 44 lg deer will be no problem for the dog if it’s capable mate 

enjoyed the read if your happy with the dog enjoy it that’s all that matters 

[Blackmag 6,089]

Sounds like your beginning to bond and trust each other that always helps and I think the penny is beginning to drop in regards what you want from him .You certainly have him in good order and he's shapeing up nice I like him savan .he sounds still a little immature but it's coming together .I would just give him runs were he has more than a good chance of catching and things are in his favour because he's still  young yet ) otherwise he might start getting frustrated .and don't be in rush just keep him winning I have seen plenty of bull xs ruined because they have had to much to soon .and as for the slow starter they all mature at different speeds just keep giving him enough but not to much and get him out as much as possible I look forward to more posts about him 

[D Lloyd 2,790]

35 minutes ago, SavantK9 said:

It’s never for “lack of effort” as much as it’s “refinement of skills”. I’ll have to get him out with some other lurchers and see if he pieces things together quicker with a team. They learn better from eachother - but there’s something to be said for a dog who learns by themself IMO. 

If I was closer  I'd pop over and help you lol. Few with another will do him no harm mate when it was legal her most lads would start them off that way then go single so they don't become reliant on the other dog.is it jest wight tail you run