Gos Male And Woodcock

[jasper65 6]

Move with the times, do you go to work by car or on horse back, were do you keep your hawk food, i'll have one guess in a freezer, and what about telemetry, the list goes on.

As i said move with the times, parent reared are not for me, i would'nt have one free to good home.

 

Just because we have now moved forward with the times it doesn't mean things are 1 = a better quality 2 = if you look at the quality of goods these days expecially English can you say we're better off these days? somehow I don't think so, engineering skills are nothing like they used to be, Big ideas don't neccesarly mean better quality. basically if its not broken why try and mend it? the only reason P/R birds have been classed so called out of date is course 99% of people can't make a decent one while I have a hole in my arse, you know thats true aswel as I do...

 

Its the thing these days in all walks of life to always try and find the easy way out! it doesn't matter if its better or not just as long as its easy and the job get done, I could go to a DIY and pick up a quick assembly furniture kit and it would be shire but still do a Job, I could also go to a guy in the village who makes and turns his own furniture and I know which one would be quality and the one I would rather have if funds was available...

[Sherman 0]

thats why parent reared, allways fly at a lighter weight, than an imprint !

 

Sorry mate I'll have to disagree with you there! conditioning is the key to any bird, Its not just about taking a birds weight off! Yep its obviouse its needed at the start as it is with a Imprint but a Keen P/R bird in Hunting condition should fly not far off its top when in its peak condition, hence the saying "Feed them up and fly them hard"... the Finn x Hungarian female I have here came out of the aviary at 2lb 11, I stopped flying her a few weeks before xmas and she was no where near what I would consider half fit, she finished off flying a tad under 2lb 7, I'm pretty sure if I made the effort more would have gone on this bird.

 

One finn male I had from Bob Haddon came out 1lb 15 1/2, it finished off flying near on 1lb 13! I flew a bird hard back then which I won't repeat again, its no bullshit if you know the guy he'll tell you himself. I keep hearing alot about P/R having to be reduced alot in weight to perform!! all I can say if this is the case they've f****d up in the manning and conditioning somewhere....

 

This is entirley what I was getting at in a earlier post. flying Imprints all the time will learn people nothing in a skill what used to be called a ART, making a Gos to the Hood is yet another Skill which won't be learned by Imprint flyers cause really lets face it they shouldn't really need one, the thing is all these skills are being missed these days and in my mind its a waste! I feel proud to habe learned the hard way and sustained the same values, I relish the thought of taking up a bird straight out of the enclosed chamber which comes out simular to a passage bird Temperament wise and winning it over to know only hunt but also to bond with me as a Hunting partner....

 

Jasper

If he been an imprint he'd have flown at over 2lb.

[jasper65 6]

read the book mate, bert did take branchers, infact he hated them,

 

Can't quite make sense of this post Daz old mate . I remeber when I was about in the roman times how we used to fly Passage and Haggard birds , I also remember a noted Haggard called Mrs Gibson..

 

Now look lad! you've come on here to piss people off and now you've been found out big time! for a lad in his earley twenties you really ask some silly questions over and over and over and over and over again....

[jasper65 6]

If he been an imprint he'd have flown at over 2lb.

 

Dear oh dear!! Yep it would but not very well though would it , it would probably have flown alright at that weight no problem but in the oposite direction .

[Sherman 0]

thats why parent reared, allways fly at a lighter weight, than an imprint !

 

Sorry mate I'll have to disagree with you there! conditioning is the key to any bird, Its not just about taking a birds weight off! Yep its obviouse its needed at the start as it is with a Imprint but a Keen P/R bird in Hunting condition should fly not far off its top when in its peak condition, hence the saying "Feed them up and fly them hard"... the Finn x Hungarian female I have here came out of the aviary at 2lb 11, I stopped flying her a few weeks before xmas and she was no where near what I would consider half fit, she finished off flying a tad under 2lb 7, I'm pretty sure if I made the effort more would have gone on this bird.

 

One finn male I had from Bob Haddon came out 1lb 15 1/2, it finished off flying near on 1lb 13! I flew a bird hard back then which I won't repeat again, its no bullshit if you know the guy he'll tell you himself. I keep hearing alot about P/R having to be reduced alot in weight to perform!! all I can say if this is the case they've f****d up in the manning and conditioning somewhere....

 

This is entirley what I was getting at in a earlier post. flying Imprints all the time will learn people nothing in a skill what used to be called a ART, making a Gos to the Hood is yet another Skill which won't be learned by Imprint flyers cause really lets face it they shouldn't really need one, the thing is all these skills are being missed these days and in my mind its a waste! I feel proud to habe learned the hard way and sustained the same values, I relish the thought of taking up a bird straight out of the enclosed chamber which comes out simular to a passage bird Temperament wise and winning it over to know only hunt but also to bond with me as a Hunting partner....

 

Jasper

If he been an imprint he'd have flown at over 2lb.

 

Dear oh dear!! Yep it would but not very well though would it , it would probably have flown alright at that weight no problem but in the oposite direction .

You are definitely against imprints, the bird i flew this year was not a massive male, if he had ben parent reared he would have flown at a lot lower weight. i have been involved with hawks for 32 yrs, and i have not seen a parent reared Goshawk, that will live with an imprint, i have not seen a parent reared Gos that i would like to hunt with, or own, all thoughs years ago, the first Goses i saw fly were passage birds, give me an imprint ever time.

[jasper65 6]

You are definitely against imprints, the bird i flew this year was not a massive male, if he had ben parent reared he would have flown at a lot lower weight. i have been involved with hawks for 32 yrs, and i have not seen a parent reared Goshawk, that will live with an imprint, i have not seen a parent reared Gos that i would like to hunt with, or own, all thoughs years ago, the first Goses i saw fly were passage birds, give me an imprint ever time.

 

Nope not against them at all and have adviced lads to take one and Imprint in the past and present! My gripe is reading Bollox like this quoteing how long they have been in the game and Bumming up Imprints when like I said ealier!! THEY'RE THE SAME BIRD BUT JUST REARED DIFFERENT , Its like reading a story on Telly Tubbies on here latley and nothing like talking to a seasoned Falconer as you say you are...

 

Beleve me old mate I can quote alot about myself and how long I have been n the game and who I have flown with good and bad buy why bother? its nothing! it means nothing to me so why talk about it, I genuinly thought you was on the boil but I'm sorry mate this last post pretty much says it all to me, for f**k sake get in the real world and stop reading too many books about Imprinting as if they the do all and end all in Falconry....

 

Now you say your birds not a massive male and I agree! there is a lad on here who had a male off me a couple of seasons ago which has topped out aviary weight at around 2lb 7 - 8! its not bollox cause he has just joined and I'm hopeing he'll get some pic's up soon, this particular finn line has a cracking temperament and will fly a a very high condition Imprinted or not. Now you have reminded me you've been in the game for 32 years! now surley in this time if you've been into accipiters you'll know a good conditioned P/R bird will fly at a exceptional high weight, if you're saying NO them I'm sorry you havn't been and done it enough....

[Sherman 0]

Sorry i don't aree with you, and theres lots, of more experienced flyers than me, who would not aree with you as well, 2lb 7 i'd love to see that bird fly, and kill with real, venom, by bird killed pheasants at 1lb 12 1/8 but not in the same style as when he was 1lb 11 1/4, and he was flown 5 to 7 days a week, and was a the peak of fitness, and because he was an imprint and was killing at a much younger age, than a parent reared, he was so confident.

[jasper65 6]

Sorry i don't aree with you, and theres lots, of more experienced flyers than me, who would not aree with you as well, 2lb 7 i'd love to see that bird fly, and kill with real, venom, by bird killed pheasants at 1lb 12 1/8 but not in the same style as when he was 1lb 11 1/4, and he was flown 5 to 7 days a week, and was a the peak of fitness, and because he was an imprint and was killing at a much younger age, than a parent reared, he was so confident.

 

 

You really gennuinly have no idea about conditioning a bird have you? Its plain obviouse by reading your posts that you feel the way to get the best out of a P/R bird is too chop its weight down , get a hold of yourself man and do your homework on conditioning a hawk and then hopefully when you have learned a little more you will understand P/R birds a bit more.....

 

as for my birds there is plenty who have seen it fly and this bird would Boomerang to the fist at high weights! you won't get away from this bird at 2lb 7 I can promise you that because the bird was manned in such a way it wanted to return to the fist above sitting in a tree or whatever, the fist is pride of place, and this wasn't a Pure finn thats supposed to have a wonderful temperament, She's half Hungarian which are supposed to be arsy if you listen to alot of people, hopefully some lads who saw it fly on the forum will also back this up. the funny thing is too I only flew it about 2 times a week at the most perhaps 3 sometimes, it would never be able to take on an catch good strong game over long distances the way I was flying it but its potential was there just like any Goshawk, the thing is with me these days is I have other things to do now that take priority....

 

surely you're not saying flying Imprints makes someone a experinced Gos flyer hey . I know of one particular lad who likes to shout alot about his Goshawks who start in 2000 with a Harrishawk and f****d about or should I say f****d up a good few birds and can now rule the world cause he's flying a Imprint and finally getting out and killing things, does this make him a good Falconer as some people have mentioned in the past? I don;t think so.

 

the problem with you old mate is you don't read through the posts again! you say you sit and read the Imprint accipiter from cover to cover over and over again then sit back and read through a few of the posts, now if you do you will see no one has said that Imprints are any better or any worse than P/R except yourself and your side kick, its getting boring saying all the time the birds are the same but just reared differently ...

 

Sit back and think as a Falconer of 32 years what you're really saying and does it really make sense? Nope sorry it doesn't as both birds reared either way in peak condition will still be able to go out and do the same damage, one thing you should also remember "you'll never see a fat Marathon Runner" nothing will be acheived flying a bird over weight like some I have seen in the past to cover up some bad habits! I have seen first hand and also seen many pic's of Imprints mantling all over kills and screaming, it looks and sounds Fooking awful....

 

Now I'm off as I have birds to feed

[jasper65 6]

For f**k sake lad I was flying Imprint spars and a few Kestrels many years ago but prefered the Spars chreched on a ledge! I also flew a Imprint Tiercel loaned to me and didn't like that either....

 

Now lad you have just answered your own question which seems to be the case with you over and over and over and over again! its now pretty boring and un interesting to say the least, I won't be drawn into this Bollox anymore cause basically its total Dross and getting nowhere talking to someone who constantly repeats their posts over and over again...

 

Don't you also think by writing this sort of crap you're Undermineing other lads who have made excellent jobs of all sorts of P/R species? I would say across the board looking at all the species P/R birds are still the most flown.

 

The other thing! why do I want to delete this thread? the thread is about a Good P/R Gos taking a Woodcock which has been Hijacked by you sprouting off about Imprints! Plus its keeping me entertained during a otherwise quiet spell ...

 

I have said it before you're not going to come on this Hunting forum to keep talking Bollox and sumizing about bollox! if you are! do one before someone does it for you ....

[jasper65 6]

that must be your favorite saying tony " do one " lol you need to chill out and just moderate, who moderates you posts with all the swearing in it?, have you not learnt that by going back at the young lad your only fuelling his fire and the only way you'll beat him is to ban him from the forum if your stressed now wait to a couple of months time and then you'll be worse.

 

chris.

 

No doubt about it Chris it is my Favourite saying when posts are repeated over and over again and others keep talking Bollox, and why shouldn't it be . I've got nothing against swearing either! why should I? I thought we was big boys now. I'm certainly not stressed in the least Chris! I would go as far as to say I'm pretty chilled this year and looking forward to filling a whole lot of orders incudeing some for Garth ...

 

You're right Banning him is a option but to be Honest I have been pretty entertained by it until he posts the same things over and over and over again! its certainly opended my eyes .....

 

Jasper

[Sherman 0]

Oh mate there was plenty saw it fly and this bird would Boomerang to the fist! you won't get away from this bird at 2lb 7 I can promise you that because the bird was manned in such a way it wanted to return to the fist above sitting in a tree or whatever, the fist was pride of place, and this wasn't a Pure finn thats supposed to have a wonderful temperament, She's half Hungarian which are supposed to be arsy if you listen to alot of people, hopefully some lads who saw it fly on the forum will also back this up. the funny thing is too I only flew it about 2 times a week at the most perhaps 3 sometimes, it would never be able to take on an catch good strong game over long distances the way I was flying it but its potential was there just like any Goshawk, the thing is with me these days is I have other things to do now that take priority....

 

surely you're not saying flying Imprints makes someone a experinced Gos flyer hey . I know of one particular lad who likes to shout alot about his Goshawks who start in 2000 with a Harrishawk and f****d about or should I say f****d up a good few birds and can now rule the world cause he's flying a Imprint and finally getting out and killing things, does this make him a good Falconer as some people have mentioned in the past? I don;t think so.

 

the problem with you old mate is you don't read through the posts again! you say you sit and read the Imprint accipiter from cover to cover over and over again then sit back and read through a few of the posts, now if you do you will see no one has said that Imprints are any better or any worse than P/R except yourself and your side kick, its getting boring saying all the time the birds are the same but just reared differently ...

 

Sit back and think as a Falconer of 32 years what you're really saying and does it really make sense? Nope sorry it doesn't as both birds reared either way in peak condition will still be able to go out and do the same damage, one thing you should also remember "you'll never see a fat Marathon Runner" nothing will be acheived flying a bird over weight like some I have seen in the past to cover up some bad habits! I have seen first hand and also seen many pic's of Imprints mantling all over kills and screaming, it looks and sounds Fooking awful....

 

Now I'm off as I have birds to feed

 

I don't think that we will ever agree, on the parent reared verses imprint, so lets agree to disagree, i think the one thing we will agree on is, any Goshawk, parent or imprint must be fit so show it,s full potencial, most parent reared simply are not fit, my imprint was going out the window, morning, afternoon, and night some days, the window hawking is only and "end to a means" to get a hawk confident and fit, nothing else, flying game over pointers is the bi picture.

I've heard about these big males, and would love to see one fly !

[jasper65 6]

I don't think that we will ever agree, on the parent reared verses imprint, so lets agree to disagree, i think the one thing we will agree on is, any Goshawk, parent or imprint must be fit so show it,s full potencial, most parent reared simply are not fit, my imprint was going out the window, morning, afternoon, and night some days, the window hawking is only and "end to a means" to get a hawk confident and fit, nothing else, flying game over pointers is the bi picture.

I've heard about these big males, and would love to see one fly !

 

You're right Sherman! nothing is set in concrete and wouldn't it be a pitiful world if we all agreed. the guy on the site who brought one of the big male's had it taking Corvids at 2lb, I also kept a brother to this back as a future donor! they're off the BH lines that throw some corkers. Beleive it or not I'm giving a male away this year to a good friend who will do one justice and another female will be going cheap as a Imprint to another good friend who will do his justice. infact Sherman a whole lot from different lines will be going cheaper.

 

I'm not against Imprints whatsoever! I just have my own values I stick by. not once have I said one is better than the other but I will stick to my corner if I feel P/R birds are being treat unjust. I have a garden full of Imprints for breeding and like to hear good things about them however they was reared, but I will say this? If I sell someone a arsey P/R bird and I see this bird or hear of this bird Manned to the hilt and flying in all company and dear I say it made to the Hood then he gets a big slap on the back and a pick of any other young Gos free the following year or anytime! to me a guy like this could be trusted to fly anything and a value to fly my stock ....

 

Jasper

[SPAR 2]

ITS GETTING BORING NOW

Just go and buy an imprint or a P/R Gos and find out yourself what its like. Dont beat around the bush go buy one and get on with it

Edited February 8, 2008 by SPAR

[D.A.Z 0]

jasper you must have some time on your hands at the moment as you do write some looooooooooong posts mate.

its a shame your post has been hijacked,but some of it has made for interesting reading.

 

scotish daz,

if i was you mate i would just do as my mentor (if you had one) told me,by that i mean if he says p/r go that way, if he says imprint then go that way.

 

to me imprint, p/r, large, or small, whatever each to there own.at the end of the day they are both undoubtubly excelent at there job.and as jasper has said the same bird just reared differently.

thanks DAZ.

[jasper65 6]

jasper you must have some time on your hands at the moment as you do write some looooooooooong posts mate.

its a shame your post has been hijacked,but some of it has made for interesting reading.

 

scotish daz,

if i was you mate i would just do as my mentor (if you had one) told me,by that i mean if he says p/r go that way, if he says imprint then go that way.

 

to me imprint, p/r, large, or small, whatever each to there own.at the end of the day they are both undoubtubly excelent at there job.and as jasper has said the same bird just reared differently.

thanks DAZ.

 

I have some time to kill at the moment DAZ! but probably shouldn't be on here typing so much as I'm behind on alot of things. you know how it is! you see something you feel needs saying so you say it , shooting from the hip is something I can't change now at my age.....

 

Jasper