Mohamed Ali documentary...

[jukel123 9,046]

I appreciate most of you guys don't remember the mostly black 70s heavyweights.  I could name you ten who had absolutely no quit in them. They were the grandsons of slaves, and the sons of share croppers. They often came from very large families and endured harsh physical discipline growing up. This gave them a street toughness and a determination to withstand repeated heavy shots without even thinking about surrender. Boxing gave them a stage, money and status. Without it they were nobodies again. I honestly believe they would have seen M Tyson as a joke if he gave them the menacing stare. With their experiences in life they would not have been psyched out by a 'hard' look from what they would have seen as a young punk.

 Tyson was exciting, but definitely benefited from there being no credible opposition to him in his prime.

I can actually take him better now than when he was having psycho meltdowns. I think he realises his own weaknesses and faults now, and is more chilled about himself and his abilities.

[gnasher16 30,597]

17 hours ago, McVey said:

It appears that Holyfield did have his number but then you have to put things in to perspective.

Tyson was clearly never the same fighter after he parted with Kevin Rooney, on top of that he spent almost 4 years in prison, inactive, by the time he faced Holyfield he'd had what, about half a dozen rounds?

That's going to have a massive impact on your game, he had more time off than Ali did.

I agree with you though, despite going out on his shield a couple of times he didn't have the same heart or determination of an Ali, Frazier, Holyfield, etc. Tyson took his licks as good as any fighter but it's as though he resigned himself to defeat.

Towards the back end of his career he often cried out in pain when the corner was working on his cuts,  very odd behaviour in the middle of a fight. In all honesty he didn't want to be there anymore.

It's as though he had to dig deep inside himself to unleash that warrior spirit whereas with the likes of Ali, Frazier, Holyfield it just came natural.

Still, that doesn't diminish his greatness, ability wise he was a freak, a terrific fighter, on a H2H basis at his peak, he's a nightmare for any HW in history.

No other fighter in history has had so many excuses lined up for him ive never understood it,again i just put it down to impressionable youngsters who are now middle aged men reminiscing almost ( thats not a dig by the way i just cant think of any other reason why )......as George Foreman once said about the Ali defeat in that Champions Forever documentary " give me any excuse you want and i,ll take it.....my shoes were too big "

I just dont book Tyson a great fighter.....to be seen as a great fighter you have to beat other great fighters and he never came close to beating one.....when you look at it straight his best victory was Holmes and he was 107 !!.....who else could be seen as a worthy win if talking " greatness "....Tubbs ? Thomas ? Berbick ?......and they are from the best part of his career !

For me that Teddy Atlas interview is absolutely word for word bang on.

[mC HULL 14,274]

1 minute ago, gnasher16 said:

No other fighter in history has had so many excuses lined up for him ive never understood it,again i just put it down to impressionable youngsters who are now middle aged men reminiscing almost ( thats not a dig by the way i just cant think of any other reason why )......as George Foreman once said about the Ali defeat in that Champions Forever documentary " give me any excuse you want and i,ll take it.....my shoes were too big "

I just dont book Tyson a great fighter.....to be seen as a great fighter you have to beat other great fighters and he never came close to beating one.....when you look at it straight his best victory was Holmes and he was 107 !!.....who else could be seen as a worthy win if talking " greatness "....Tubbs ? Thomas ? Berbick ?......and they are from the best part of his career !

For me that Teddy Atlas interview is absolutely word for word bang on.

i have to agree and i loved tyson growing up i think his best  win was ruddock 

lewis holyfield bowe would all of beaten him if they fought in there prime 

he beat a lot of average fighters 

 

[gnasher16 30,597]

14 hours ago, jukel123 said:

 

 Tyson was exciting, but definitely benefited from there being no credible opposition to him in his prime.

I can actually take him better now than when he was having psycho meltdowns. I think he realises his own weaknesses and faults now, and is more chilled about himself and his abilities.

Completely agree.....his hand speed,variety of shots and finishing ability was fantastic in the era he was in.....but whos to say it would have had the same effect with higher opposition it always cracks me up when you hear " he would of battered Lewis in his prime " 

As you say,thankfully he's ended up a good honest ex sportsman and fair play to him for that