Sheep Issue

[jukel123 8,017]

40 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

Anyone who says they have never had a hunting dog have a funny moment of some kind with sheep is probably telling porkies.

Having a dog which isn’t at all stock broken, may work for some folk, but for most of us it’s a liability. 
 

But I can imagine for a lot of folk as much as they can do some stock breaking, the opportunities are not always as readily available as to others. 
 

Ive always taken the approach that it’s best to make sheep totally un exciting, part of the scenery, something they recognise and know what it is. My lot tend to grow up around them and see them as pups, get stamped at by a moody ewe, cuddle up with pet lambs in the dog bed and come round the sheds with me etc. They all learn when pups what sheep are and not to chase them. 
 

But still, I’ve had plenty of moments! Never anything too serious, but have found most young dogs have a moment either through bordem or because they’ve started working and now are looking for prey. The only real option is quick punative action and immediate re exposure. 
 

There is also a massive difference between a big flock of white sheep stood in a field, and individual sheep running, or hill sheep breaking out of cover or worst of all something sick, injured or stuck which seems to wake the predator up in the dog. 

A sheep with a limp is like a magnet for a hunting dog. Something way back in their DNA excites them....it's an easy meal.

I think a dog which has broken the cardinal rule can be re-trained by the methods already outlined depending on its temperament . But you must keep at it. Every opportunity to reinforce the rule must be taken. You can never assume the dog is 100% reliable any more. I would say the dog is on probation, if it does it again after a summer of re-education and deliberate temptation, that's the time to think about your options.

Edited February 22, 2022 by jukel123

[jukel123 8,017]

On 21/02/2022 at 19:19, Black neck said:

Yours any good on sheep mate

Mine can put in a couple of turns, but then they are knackered and give up.

[NE_Monkey 159]

I'm not out lamping every week and setting the world on fire but I have no issues avoiding stock and wouldn't feel right letting my hound course round them even if they were bulletproof, I think stern correction  at time is important which I have done but never had opportunity to confirm training due to future avoidance but it was a scruff of the neck and harsh voice correction, I wasn't risking a bond for an accident due to the dog at time being young and not having any formal livestock introduction which would be the better option and going back to it where necessary, again I'm a novice and still learning, I probably spend more time reading about it LOL.

is the e collar better than livestock training?

Atb

[Black neck 15,947]

4 hours ago, NE_Monkey said:

I'm not out lamping every week and setting the world on fire but I have no issues avoiding stock and wouldn't feel right letting my hound course round them even if they were bulletproof, I think stern correction  at time is important which I have done but never had opportunity to confirm training due to future avoidance but it was a scruff of the neck and harsh voice correction, I wasn't risking a bond for an accident due to the dog at time being young and not having any formal livestock introduction which would be the better option and going back to it where necessary, again I'm a novice and still learning, I probably spend more time reading about it LOL.

is the e collar better than livestock training?

Atb

You could try kenneling the dog with a sheep 

[NE_Monkey 159]

2 hours ago, Black neck said:

You could try kenneling the dog with a sheep 

Or force his eyes open and watch films with sheep and violent images like on clockwork orange, with a bit of Beethoven music.

[SheepChaser 8,089]

[nothernlite 18,083]

16 hours ago, bird said:

pity , the owner of the dog, didnt  give it good hiding , when he pulled the dog of the sheep , it was perfect  right then  hit the dog,  with still holding the sheep down, get the dog on the lead , right over the sheep, then give the dog good hiding , you got be brutal , it got to get in the dogs head, that them  wooly things mean pain if it get  to close to them. it better to do this than ,  get the dog shot   fact , hope you sort it out mate . 

100%

[jackthelad 1,893]

Mines was coming down a hill one night after missing what he was chasing one the shitty big smelly hill sheep jumped right in front of him an the bugger nailed it dead bye the time I was up to them now this dog had grew up round sheep ran things threw fields of them .... a good hiding that night back in a paddock the very next day and never looked at them...... an never has since .... but I’d still never trust that dog 100% I don’t no if those smelly feckin hill sheep smell different from paddock sheep ?

[SheepChaser 8,089]

9 minutes ago, jackthelad said:

Mines was coming down a hill one night after missing what he was chasing one the shitty big smelly hill sheep jumped right in front of him an the bugger nailed it dead bye the time I was up to them now this dog had grew up round sheep ran things threw fields of them .... a good hiding that night back in a paddock the very next day and never looked at them...... an never has since .... but I’d still never trust that dog 100% I don’t no if those smelly feckin hill sheep smell different from paddock sheep ?

They do smell different mate and also move different. Too much like deer! 

[SheepChaser 8,089]

[dogmandont 9,821]

23 minutes ago, jackthelad said:

Mines was coming down a hill one night after missing what he was chasing one the shitty big smelly hill sheep jumped right in front of him an the bugger nailed it dead bye the time I was up to them now this dog had grew up round sheep ran things threw fields of them .... a good hiding that night back in a paddock the very next day and never looked at them...... an never has since .... but I’d still never trust that dog 100% I don’t no if those smelly feckin hill sheep smell different from paddock sheep ?

Them are the ones that will test any dog. 

[albert64 1,882]

2 hours ago, SheepChaser said:

See lads there’s the proof tie one to the Dodd collar 

[Aussie Whip 4,097]

I've always wondered when crossing stock working dogs with hunting breeds that you might end up with dogs drawn to be near stock but not the mentality to hold back from killing them.

[TelephonePete 111]

On 21/02/2022 at 13:59, treefella said:

Afternoon Guys/girls

Had a bit of an issue with my lurcher over the weekend.  Has been trained and absolutely trust worthy around sheep until Saturday, hopped over a fence into a field to see what was about.  There were two sheep on their own, I didn't give it much thought as he is so good around them.  Then they ran across the field, again didn't think much of it, until out of know where he went for them, I shouted at him and ended up pulling him off one of them.  Luckily I got there before any real damage was done, he had just pulled it over, hadn't gone for the kill yet.

Is he forever untrustworthy now, I'm gutted as I did a lot of work with stock training. 

Its shite as I never used to need to worry but all of a sudden he has lost all my trust around live stock

 

Any tips for re-training him, he is 2yrs old but still a bit of a goofy pup at times. collie/deer/beddy/grey type mix, 27inchs and nearly 70lbs so not a small dog

 

Cheers

 

Has he only done it the once? For what its worth and I am fully expecting to get jumped on for this. You need the cooperation of somebody with sheep. Get a foot long piece of substantial Chain better still two pieces and as noisy as possible. It must be heavy enough to hurt the dog if you throw it hard. Then 25 yards of the thinnest line that is strong enough to stop the dog if he hits it in mid run. But not so heavy to make the dog constantly aware that he is on what is essentialy a long lead. Approach a small group of sheep with the dog on the line holding the chain in your fist keeping it quiet (important). dont make any comment to the dog just present him to the sheep and let him make up his mind. If he makes the slightest move on the Sheep without warning throw the chain hard at the dogs side roaring NO. The NO must coinside with the moment of most impact (Important).  If you miss then get the second Chain and hopefully hit the next time with another NO. It is important that you scare the shit out of the dog. If the dog jumps 3ft in the air cajole him to you with a coaxing voice backing away and bending down. At this moment you must use a welcoming voice. Having done something Hard to your dog it is easy to slip up and use a hard voice. Your voice must be soft and welcoming. If you mess it up the first time take the dog  away calm down and 10 mins later do it again. You might get an instant good reaction. However you are learning how to get it right so keep the faith and keep it up. As long as you dont manhandle the dog in any way when he comes back. The beauty of this method is any nasty stuff takes place when the dog is away from you and any contact with you is affection and perhaps a play fight and anything that gives the dog pleasure. Dont go mad at it. Do it perhaps 3 times per session. Let the dog make up his mind as you approach the sheep and be consistant in your reaction. Sometimes a clink of the chain is enough as a reminder of what is possibly going to happen. Good luck if you do decide to give it a go but remember every time the dog has a go at Sheep he is training himself To Go For Sheep by Repetition.   (Dog Trainer of the Old School for 50 years.)

[Black neck 15,947]

5 hours ago, NE_Monkey said:

Or force his eyes open and watch films with sheep and violent images like on clockwork orange, with a bit of Beethoven music.

That's just silly