Russia Ukraine WW3

[paulus 26]

Have things really changed since back then, The army was paid for by, and used to protect the interests of massive corporation's, This wasn't about National security, it was all about the money, Pretty much how i see it still being today. 

[mackem 26,241]

14 hours ago, paulus said:

Background

India was considered a critical component of the British Empire. Its protection was therefore paramount. Given Afghanistan’s important strategic position between India and the Russian Empire, the East India Company was keen to ensure that a pro-British emir was on the throne there.

In 1837, fearful of a Russian invasion of India via the Khyber and Bolan Passes, the British sent an envoy to the Afghan capital, Kabul, to gain the support of Emir Dost Mohammed Khan.

Initially, the emir was in favour of an alliance with the British. But when they refused to help him regain Peshawar - seized by the Sikhs in 1834 - he prepared to talk to the Russians, who also sent an envoy to Kabul. This led Lord Auckland, the Governor-General of India, to conclude that Dost Mohammed was anti-British.

During the negotiations, a Russian-backed Persian (Iranian) army besieged the western Afghan city of Herat. An invasion of India via Afghanistan by foreign powers now seemed a firm possibility. The British therefore decided to replace Dost Mohammed with a former ruler, Shah Shuja, who was considered more amenable.

In Spring 1839, General Sir John Keane led a 20,000-strong British-Indian force, the Army of the Indus, through the Bolan and Khojak Passes. The terrain was difficult, and the British were harassed by tribesmen en route, but they encountered no major resistance.

The invasion force captured Kandahar without a fight after its ruler, the brother of Dost Mohammed, fled to Kabul as the army approached in April. Leaving a garrison there under Major-General Sir William Nott, the main force then marched north-east towards Kabul.

After bribing many of Kandahar's tribal leaders, the British also organised a triumphant entry into the city for Shah Shuja.

he route to Kabul was blocked by Ghazni fort. This presented a major problem for the British as they lacked the heavy artillery needed to breach its thick 60-foot-high walls.

They only succeeded in storming it on 23 July 1839, after Mohan Lal - a Kashmiri interpreter, spy and assistant to the political officer Captain Sir Alexander Burnes - discovered that one of the gates was lightly defended.

In taking the fortress, the British suffered 200 men killed or wounded. The Afghans lost nearly 500 men, with another 1,600 captured. Ghazni was also well-supplied and its provisions eased the British advance on Kabul.

Dost Mohammed fled from Kabul and Emir Shah Shuja was duly installed in August. However, the British could not afford to keep troops in Kabul indefinitely. Preparations were therefore made to withdraw the majority of them.

On its way back to India, the Army of the Indus inflicted punishment on the Baluchi Khans of Khelat (Qalat). This was because of their constant attacks on British supply lines.

After fierce fighting in the surrounding hills, the walls of Khelat were successfully stormed and the city captured. A small force was then left to garrison the town.

Unrest in Kabul

The British had left political envoys and a small garrison in Kabul. But their numbers were swelled by thousands of mostly Indian servants and camp-followers. Popular opposition to Shah Shuja and resentment of the British grew, especially after the subsidies paid to local tribal leaders in return for their support were cut.

The perceived arrogance of the British, as well as cultural insensitivity and a string of sexual scandals, inflamed the situation. Things got so bad that the garrison evacuated the city on diplomatic grounds. The soldiers could have occupied the formidable Bala Hissar fort, but instead moved into a poorly-situated camp outside the city.

Revolt

The unrest in Kabul soon escalated into an insurrection led by Dost Mohammad's son, Muhammad Akbar Khan. The British diplomats, including Sir William MacNaghten, were murdered and the garrison was eventually forced to surrender.

Retreat

The British commander, General Sir William Elphinstone, then negotiated a withdrawal. The terms he accepted included surrendering his gunpowder reserves and most of his cannon.

In January 1842, the Kabul garrison of 4,500 British and Indian troops, along with 12,000 camp followers, marched out of the city with the promise that it would be allowed to retreat to India in safety.

On leaving the city, Elphinstone discovered that the escort promised by the Afghans had not materialised, neither had the food and fuel to help with the crossing of the mountains in winter.

His junior officers pleaded with him to turn back to Kabul as they still had time to take refuge in the Bala Hissar. Elphinstone ignored this and ordered them onwards.

Death in the snow

The column came under immediate attack from the hill tribes as it struggled through the cold, mountainous terrain. The Afghans sniped with their long-barrelled jezails - guns that outranged many of the British and Indian troops’ muskets. They also launched raids on the column and picked off stragglers.

Only a few troops escaped the final massacre at the Gandamak Pass. Most of the Indian sepoys were killed. Several hundred were later sold in Kabul's slave markets. Just one European reached Jalalabad, Dr William Brydon.

Hostages

The only other British survivors were the soldiers, wives and children still in Afghan hands. Some had been taken prisoner. Others, including Elphinstone who had abandoned his men, volunteered to be hostages in an effort to secure safe passage for the rest of the garrison.

Jalalabad

Earlier, in October 1841, Major-General Sir Robert Sale had been sent from Kabul with a force to clear the passes to Jalalabad as the first stage of a planned withdrawal. His brigade had to fight its way through and he was forced to take refuge in Jalalabad fort.

Under siege

Despite orders from Elphinstone to return, Sale decided it was impossible to fight his way back. Resisting his personal desire to return to protect his wife and daughter, who were in the Afghan capital, he at once set about preparing the half-ruined fortress for a siege.

The ramparts were widened and the parapets raised. In addition, cover outside the walls was removed by demolishing buildings and filling ditches. As soon as the Kabul garrison had been destroyed, Akbar Khan joined the Afghans already besieging Sale at Jalalabad.

Relief

In an effort to relieve Sale, the British now despatched the Army of Retribution from India under Major-General George Pollock.

Hearing rumours that Pollock's force had been prevented from entering the Khyber Pass, Sale mounted an all-out diversionary attack on Akbar Khan's army on 7 April 1842. During this assault, Akbar's camp was fired and plundered. Soon after, Pollock’s men arrived.

Pressing on, Pollock defeated Akbar Khan at Jagdalak and Tezeen, finally reaching Kabul in September 1842. There, he was joined by Nott’s Kandahar force. Since the uprising, Nott had successfully defended Kandahar and then relieved the besieged garrison at Khelat. Next, he had been ordered to return to India via Kabul.
 
While in Kabul, Pollock rescued 95 British hostages. Then, in a pointless act of revenge, he destroyed the citadel and bazaar as a ‘lasting mark of just retribution'.

On 12 October 1842, Pollock departed for India, via Jalalabad and the Khyber Pass. The East India Company had decided that occupying Afghanistan would cost too much, in both men and money, and withdrew.

Aftermath

By this time, Emir Shah Shuja had been murdered by the supporters of Akbar Khan. Dost Mohammed Khan, who had handed himself into British custody in November 1840, was quietly released.

He returned to Afghanistan and resumed the throne, reigning until his death in 1863. With some exceptions, his relationship with British India was friendly, and from 1855 regulated by treaty. He was succeeded by his son Sher Ali, who continued his father's policy.

The Kabul disaster had undermined the Company's reputation for military invincibility. This served to embolden native powers like the Sikhs, who would come to challenge the British in the 1840s. It also eroded morale within the Bengal Army, the force that sustained most of the casualties, thereby sowing the seeds of discontent that would contribute to the outbreak of the Indian Mutiny in 1857.

 

Justifiable rep as the graveyard of empires. 

[Mickey Finn 3,008]

22 hours ago, waltjnr said:

Can some of the army boys give an opinion on how well the Ukrainian lads are doing, would they fancy a bit of it ? A genuine  question 

Try to.  They are taking out 5 Russians for everyone they lose. So, they are making good use of familiar ground, local support and a disciplined and motivated fighting force. That would be the positive points. 

The negative would be that Russia has a lot more soldiers to lose. So, with between 15,000 and 18,000 killed and anywhere from 100,000 to 200,000 wounded.  Ukraine will most likely run out of fighting men first. 

The spring offensive with updated (and captured) weapons is what we want to watch. Russia is amassing a large force in preparation. Ukraine, however, does not have this option. Any troops they move to say Kherson, or Donetsk. Has to be drawn from some other front. So, we all wonder if they have the forces necessary to launch a comprehensive counterattack this spring? If they do. Modern battle tanks, IFV's, and artillery will really have an impact of Russian lines. That's my opinion anyway.

There is a lot of nonsense being spread and sources that have reliable information are scarce. Norway has their data. NATO has theirs and the USA has theirs. Neither Ukraine or Russia is forthcoming with reliable data, so numbers vary widely.

If you have not seen this already. Good Times Bad Times out of Poland has this out.  https://youtu.be/CRTNJyq4DtI?t=4 

Maps always help me understand.

[BobDown 747]

23 hours ago, Greyman said:

 

 

The mans a jew no wonder 

[paul sr 796]

8 hours ago, mackem said:

Justifiable rep as the graveyard of empires. 

Afghanistan is very rich in natural resources . That is why the Chinese are moving in to Afghanistan and the Chinese  won't fire a shoot or drop a bomb or lose any servicemen .

[mC HULL 12,233]

9 hours ago, paulus said:

Have things really changed since back then, The army was paid for by, and used to protect the interests of massive corporation's, This wasn't about National security, it was all about the money, Pretty much how i see it still being today. 

you talk plenty a sense paulus you’ve been in the army and know it’s about making the rich man richer nothing to do with making us safe ffs lol 

just the yanks causing more suffering for there gain as always 

[mC HULL 12,233]

someone will say well if russia take ukraine we’re will they stop lol the worse part is they actually believe what they are saying ffs lol

[mC HULL 12,233]

one for you stiff lol good old tik tok with the truth lol ukrainian soldiers all waving the flag

[THE STIFFMEISTER 15,700]

On 14/04/2023 at 19:35, waltjnr said:

Can some of the army boys give an opinion on how well the Ukrainian lads are doing, would they fancy a bit of it ? A genuine  question 

In 2022, a crack long distance unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the general talk section of the hunting life . Today, still wanted by the government they survive as soldiers of fortune

. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him on the slop ..maybe you can hire MC Hull."

 

[chartpolski 23,179]

34 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

you talk plenty a sense paulus you’ve been in the army and know it’s about making the rich man richer nothing to do with making us safe ffs lol 

just the yanks causing more suffering for there gain as always 

I may be mistaken, and if I am I apologise, but I thought Paulus was a “brylcreem boy “ ?

Cheers.

Edited April 15, 2023 by chartpolski

[mC HULL 12,233]

1 hour ago, chartpolski said:

I may be mistaken, and if I am I apologise, but I thought Paulus was a “brylcreem boy “ ?

Cheers.

one a me grandads was a brylcreem boy ww2 lol

[scotty12 1,888]

3 hours ago, Mickey Finn said:

Try to.  They are taking out 5 Russians for everyone they lose. So, they are making good use of familiar ground, local support and a disciplined and motivated fighting force. That would be the positive points. 

The negative would be that Russia has a lot more soldiers to lose. So, with between 15,000 and 18,000 killed and anywhere from 100,000 to 200,000 wounded.  Ukraine will most likely run out of fighting men first. 

The spring offensive with updated (and captured) weapons is what we want to watch. Russia is amassing a large force in preparation. Ukraine, however, does not have this option. Any troops they move to say Kherson, or Donetsk. Has to be drawn from some other front. So, we all wonder if they have the forces necessary to launch a comprehensive counterattack this spring? If they do. Modern battle tanks, IFV's, and artillery will really have an impact of Russian lines. That's my opinion anyway.

There is a lot of nonsense being spread and sources that have reliable information are scarce. Norway has their data. NATO has theirs and the USA has theirs. Neither Ukraine or Russia is forthcoming with reliable data, so numbers vary widely.

If you have not seen this already. Good Times Bad Times out of Poland has this out.  https://youtu.be/CRTNJyq4DtI?t=4 

Maps always help me understand.

Am I reading this right for every Ukrainian killed there killing 5 Russians ??? 

[Mickey Finn 3,008]

On 15/04/2023 at 16:57, scotty12 said:

Am I reading this right for every Ukrainian killed there killing 5 Russians ??? 

That's what they are saying.

Why did you laugh at my post?

Edited April 19, 2023 by Mickey Finn

[Mickey Finn 3,008]

On 15/04/2023 at 14:12, paul sr said:

Afghanistan is very rich in natural resources . That is why the Chinese are moving in to Afghanistan and the Chinese  won't fire a shoot or drop a bomb or lose any servicemen .

We now know that China lied about live births. So, millions of younger Chinese exist on paper only. Add to that the estimate that China has lost close to one million after backing off on covid restrictions. The Chinese are essentially killing themselves off. The Taliban has also taken a few out. Which ground their copper mining operation to a halt.

While it's true China is dependent on resources sourced from outside their country. I suspect, when we see Chinese citizens with or without the blessing of the CCP investing in other nations. It's more about getting what wealth they can out of China. Rats on a sinking ship and all that. 

A good question might be: Does China have the wealth necessary to build the infrastructure required to even make use of Afghanistan's resources? Considering they are trying to build ports along the west African coast (and other places). They may not. 

Interesting times.

[scotty12 1,888]

2 hours ago, Mickey Finn said:

That's what they are saying.

Why did you laugh at my post?

Because I think your uncle joe has been telling you bed stories