Russia Ukraine WW3

[SheepChaser 8,091]

Just now, chartpolski said:

There's videos of handing out AK47's to the general population, but however romantic and patriotic it looks, I doubt even 10% know how to lock, load and move the safety off !

My point was we can supply all the high tech weapon systems we want but they need the expertise to use it.

I hope they do. I'd say, fairly certainly, that the west,( USA, UK,  The Five Eyes ), are giving all the help they can with satellite surveillance, radio traffic, etc, but it seems to me that it's the boots on the ground that will win or lose this war.

Cheers.

I think some of that is for media benefit. Like the Molotov cocktails, very effective against infantry in some occasions, but you’re telling me one of the worlds biggest producers of military hardware, a country that produces shit loads of fert, has big industry and an army of 250,000 men...... is already down to three pistols a machine gun and no bombs or grenades and only glass bottles with petrol and plastic in them ?

Yes arming everybody is the way, everyone who fights is another body and set of eyes. But there are plenty of weapons in Ukraine and plenty who know how to use them. 

[Borr 7,157]

Just now, Borr said:

Mostly to a battle hardened country, don't think of them as a normal EU country these guys have been fighting for decades...

 

2 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

There's videos of handing out AK47's to the general population, but however romantic and patriotic it looks, I doubt even 10% know how to lock, load and move the safety off !

My point was we can supply all the high tech weapon systems we want but they need the expertise to use it.

I hope they do. I'd say, fairly certainly, that the west,( USA, UK,  The Five Eyes ), are giving all the help they can with satellite surveillance, radio traffic, etc, but it seems to me that it's the boots on the ground that will win or lose this war.

Cheers.

One young lady , first female battalion leader.... Had kids now recalled to duty...

[paul sr 856]

Don't worry the bbc ,cnn  and  fox news will let us know what is going on  shortly.  

[Born Hunter 17,843]

8 minutes ago, dogmandont said:

Surely there's got to be special forces operatives from various parts of the world in the Ukraine at minute helping out?

At some level no doubt. Weapons etc have to get in somehow. How actively they are participating though…

[SheepChaser 8,091]

On paper Ukraine has 4000 troops in their Spetsnaz group. But it also has a variety of ‘disbanded’ or ‘reservist’ units equally as good which has to come out of official active service due to doing some nasty stuff previously (ie 2014 revolution). So I just don’t think it’s quite at the pitch forks and brick throwing stage yet .....

[Borr 7,157]

1 minute ago, SheepChaser said:

On paper Ukraine has 4000 troops in their Spetsnaz group. But it also has a variety of ‘disbanded’ or ‘reservist’ units equally as good which has to come out of official active service due to doing some nasty stuff previously (ie 2014 revolution). So I just don’t think it’s quite at the pitch forks and brick throwing stage yet .....

40 million population , gonna be a few specialists among them, honestly wouldn't want to be a.russian conscript knocking about....

[Borr 7,157]

Question is how does Putin get out of this....

[mC HULL 14,705]

plenty of them weapons handed out will be used against ukraine forces  

[chartpolski 26,056]

12 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

I think some of that is for media benefit. Like the Molotov cocktails, very effective against infantry in some occasions, but you’re telling me one of the worlds biggest producers of military hardware, a country that produces shit loads of fert, has big industry and an army of 250,000 men...... is already down to three pistols a machine gun and no bombs or grenades and only glass bottles with petrol and plastic in them ?

Yes arming everybody is the way, everyone who fights is another body and set of eyes. But there are plenty of weapons in Ukraine and plenty who know how to use them. 

I didn't tell you about the worlds biggest producer of anything ! Why put words in my mouth ?

I'm simply giving my opinion, as are everyone else.

You may have far more knowledge of the situation than I have, and I'll respect your opinion, but give me the curtesy of at least listening to mine without misquoting me

I enjoy the debate, especially on a subject as serious as this one , but I haven't a clue as to the outcome, that's way above any pay grade I may have reached

Cheers.

 

[Born Hunter 17,843]

21 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

I'd never dream of trying to teach my granny to suck eggs, as I'm sure you'll know that one man with a shoulder held anti armour missile will take out a tank, and the ordinance we and the US are supplying Ukraine with are state of the art.

Problem is, do they have enough of them and the expertise to use them ?

Cheers.

The weapons came with military trainers I believe. Obviously limited in what they can achieve but still. Also of course ukraine had been preparing for this sort of conflict for a while. So you’d expect them to be tactically prepared.

Obviously I can’t speak from experience and maybe others who can will, but the two weapons that have been provided are the stinger MANPAD and the NLAW anti tank weapon. I believe both are fire and forget weapons with self guided missiles. They require less input from the operator than previous generations of the same type of weapon.

Britain had a contract to supply Ukraine’s navy with brimstone missiles which obviously hasn’t happened yet. It’s a shame that this weapon wasn’t integrated with their airforce because it’s a game changing anti armour weapon. It was designed to destroy columns of Russian armour and is remarkably capable. So much so that it is really over engineered for most of what it’s been used for. A fire and forget standoff missile that can be fired in salvos of at least 12 with programmable killing area, able to prioritise targets it finds and algorithms reduce the probability of two missiles hitting the same target.

[Born Hunter 17,843]

4 minutes ago, Borr said:

Question is how does Putin get out of this....

Same way he got in, BS. If he needs to, claim he achieved the denazification of Ukraine and is leaving the place better and free, despite nato claims he was invading. He’s actually a humanitarian.

Still to early to tell.

[SheepChaser 8,091]

2 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

I didn't tell you about the worlds biggest producer of anything ! Why put words in my mouth ?

I'm simply giving my opinion, as are everyone else.

You may have far more knowledge of the situation than I have, and I'll respect your opinion, but give me the curtesy of at least listening to mine without misquoting me

I enjoy the debate, especially on a subject as serious as this one , but I haven't a clue as to the outcome, that's way above any pay grade I may have reached

Cheers.

 

Calm down, it’s called a conversation. 
 

“you’re telling me.....” is a well known expression, it is not meant to infer that you told me anything. And I apologise if you took it that way.

I was attempting to say that despite what we are being told in the media, I find it odd that the Ukraine suddenly has no professional soldiers, special forces, military hardware etc. And that two days into being invaded they are reduced to groups of woman desperately cobbling together Molotov cocktails as the last line of defence .........

Same as the ‘militia’ protecting Kiev, no guns etc etc. What happened to the 4000 plus very well trained and well armed, experienced (been fighting a war over last several years)special forces troops Ukraine is known to have ? 
 

All seems a bit odd! 

[mackem 29,027]

32 minutes ago, dogmandont said:

Surely there's got to be special forces operatives from various parts of the world in the Ukraine at minute helping out?

Ukraine special forces were trained in the States by the CIA for just this eventuality. 

[Borr 7,157]

Personally I can't see the end for either side , any ideas .... Thl war bunker .....

[Borr 7,157]

I'm thinking oligarch overthrow....keep the west happy keep my billions...