FAC application, some help and advice please

[Steviec 190]

Morning everyone, hope you’re all keeping well.

    I would be very grateful for some help and advice from you more experienced fellow forum members regarding a few questions I have on the FAC application process and the calibres to most likely be granted.

      I am currently a full  member  of a shooting club in Huddersfield (YORKSHIRE SHOOTING CENTRE) and have also just recently been fortunate enough  to gain my first shooting permission which is approximately 75 acres on which I currently use my sub 12 ft lb air rifles for pest control which is mainly rabbits with the odd pigeon and corvid, however the land has more than its fair share of foxes and the owner is more than happy for me to shoot which obviously needs FAC centre/rim fire plus the fact that many of the rabbits are well out of sub 12 air rifle range.

   After doing some research it seems that many police forces operate  differently and will stipulate on which calibre is allowed or not allowed for fox control so I would really appreciate any help or advice from fellow forum members especially from FAC holders covered by West Yorkshire Police, I know that many people will use either .22 or .17 rimfire within sensible range which I would be quite happy with as I doubt I would be granted a .223 c/f on my first application , plus they may insist on a mentor and also the fact the land may not get passed for a centrefire calibre .

 At the moment I  have it in my head to apply for the following , however it’s not set in stone and. will happily take advice on other suggestions

.22 Air rifle + moderator    (Vermin control)

.22 LR  + moderator           (Vermin control/ target shooting)

.22 LR  + moderator            (Vermin control with  NV)

.17 HMR + moderator          (Vermin control)

Does that seem reasonable???. 

Would it also be a  good idea to enclose a copy of my signed permission form and an outlined map of the permission along with the application?. 

Any help or advice would be very much appreciated and thanks for taking the time to read.

Atb

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

     

    

  

[Stavross 15,216]

If it’s only small land have you considered.22WMR

[BenBhoy 4,706]

What calibres is it already cleared for? 

How long have you been a member of your club? 

They will likely wish to speak to the landowner of your permission anyway but map is good idea. You say you've been shooting there for a bit so be sure to make them aware you're confident of areas that are safe to shoot toward & ones that aren't. 

I know there will be some saying if you've got the need for CF then no reason not to get on grant. But I only applied for hmr on my grant for same reason. I did get CF soon after but my job helped there. 

In all honesty mate you're best off giving your department a call. Don't ask "would it be OK please if I had a big boy calibre!" If you think you need a CF to control the foxes as the landowner has asked, then tell them that's why you need one. 

Good luck  

Ps 

1 hour ago, Steviec said:

as I doubt I would be granted a .223

It doesn't have to be .223!

[Steviec 190]

1 hour ago, Stavross said:

If it’s only small land have you considered.22WMR

Thanks Stavross, to be honest it never crossed my mind, definitely worth looking at though.

Thanks mate

[Steviec 190]

53 minutes ago, BenBhoy said:

What calibres is it already cleared for? 

How long have you been a member of your club? 

They will likely wish to speak to the landowner of your permission anyway but map is good idea. You say you've been shooting there for a bit so be sure to make them aware you're confident of areas that are safe to shoot toward & ones that aren't. 

I know there will be some saying if you've got the need for CF then no reason not to get on grant. But I only applied for hmr on my grant for same reason. I did get CF soon after but my job helped there. 

In all honesty mate you're best off giving your department a call. Don't ask "would it be OK please if I had a big boy calibre!" If you think you need a CF to control the foxes as the landowner has asked, then tell them that's why you need one. 

Good luck  

Ps 

It doesn't have to be .223!

Hi Ben

Thanks for your reply and the advice, much appreciated , I shall email WYP and ask what calibre's it’s been cleared for . I’ve been shooting the land for around six months so I’m aware of surrounding roads, footpaths etc.

    I’ve been a member of my club for around 3 years or so.

I’m in no mad rush to get the application in and would rather get as much info as possible before I submit my application, hence my post. 

 Thanks again mate

[villaman 9,983]

When I applied for my license , I put down for .22 FAC air . .25 FAC air , .22 lr and 17 HMR . All opened right from the beginning  all had fox written on it too 

[Deker 3,478]

.22 Air rifle + moderator    (Vermin control)

.22 LR  + moderator           (Vermin control/ target shooting)

.22 LR  + moderator            (Vermin control with  NV)

.17 HMR + moderator          (Vermin control)

Put them, and everything you apply for down for Target work as well (depending on what your club allows).

I work professionally as well as socially (previously competitively as well) with firearms and have a fair few, FAC Air is part of my tool kit and certainly useful for me at times, but its also the least used, so think about that! 

Stavross mentioned the WMR, I have one of those, as well as everything you mention above, and love it, as I always say, it gives me a feeling of confidence.  Then there are the centrefires and shotguns etc I use.

First application is always a bit nerve wracking, but just think carefully why you need each and have answers ready if asked.  There is no reason you shouldn't get a centrefire on First application (if you can make a case for it, but Target may also work for you at your club).  It does seem many regions are reluctant to give centrefire on first grant, but if you have a case put it as strongly as you can.  75 acres is big, but also small, and pretty much any centrefire (and the majority of rimfire ammo) could easily shoot out of that. 

Don't forget the cost of everything, guns, glass, NV, moderators, bipods, slings, slips, cleaning equipment/materials, cabinet, etc., etc.

Sometimes better to start slow and build up! 

With just one permission at the moment I doubt your application will be to easy, simply because most regions don't want to make it to easy!!!  But don't let obstacles put you off. 

Good luck!

[villaman 9,983]

My FAC air gets used more than 17 HMR & 22lr . One is running @ 42 ftlbs the other 72 ftlbs 

[Deker 3,478]

1 minute ago, villaman said:

My FAC air gets used more than 17 HMR & 22lr . One is running @ 42 ftlbs the other 72 ftlbs 

We all have different uses and requirements!

[Meece 1,957]

Presumably as a club member you are using a club gun on the range if this is your first application,?  It is a common failing on the part of applicants to think that it is what they consider allowing you to have.   apply for what you have a reason to have. If you have the reason, the security and you haven't been a naughty boy then apply for whatever you can justify. i.e. if you had elephants or lion out there you wouldn't be applying for an air rifle.  Also as a club member you could shoot on other ranges including military ranges.  I thought that all that mentor nonsense had been scrapped.  Who is qualified to be a mentor.?  What makes them experienced to mentor.  Who is responsible if something goes wrong.  Mentoring was one of those ideas that they made up as they went along. Like you've got to be a member of the deer society to shoot deer or you have to have a dsc, and you have to pay for a doctor's ticket and the latest one is they want us to supply them with spent cases from our rifles. ( in case that you are careless enough to lose/have your rifle nicked or stolen so that they can track it back to you.!) In the event that they find it and it has been implicated in crime.!!) "Can you account for your movements on the day of xyz" Sir.

  On 01/10/2021 at 12:19, Steviec said:

as I doubt I would be granted a .223

It doesn't have to be .223! 

consider a Rem 222 just as capable.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Meece

[Alsone 789]

Not sure you need hmr and .22LR and FAC air, you may get questioned to justify a need for more than 1 of these calibres.

HMR will despatch foxes beyond LR albeit still at close range. Several on here have found hmr although noisier to be less prone to spook rabbits than a moderated .22. Probably I'm guessing down to a lighter bullet impact at the prey end especially with misses.

I also don't see the need for FAC air. It pretty much crosses over with the rf's for vermin. FAC air is a no no for fox.

I'd say either one of the .22LR or HMR would satisfy your needs for vermin / close range fox rendering the other one and FAC air pointless. Or you could go FAC air rendering the HMR / .22LR pointless if you don't shoot fox. Any one of those 3 are good to at least 80yds on small vermin. Only FAC air is not really suitable or fox. (yes I know FAC is used in larger calibres for everything up to big game in other countries, but good luck getting FAC air passed for fox in the UK).

If you need more range then CF for fox, .22LR OR HMR OR FAC air for vermin. Otherwise, a single rifle of .17HMR or .22LR will pretty much satsify your needs albeit there will be a compromise somewhere as none are perfect all rounders.

You can apply for as many as you want. Just expect that you may be granted less than you apply for and maybe 1 rf and 1cf, or maybe only 1rf due to the crossover / 1st application.

Also, bear in mind the cost. The list above comes to £6k+ by my estimation.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Alsone

[villaman 9,983]

Never Questioned me for two FAC air , HMR and .22 lr . !!!

i use the FAC air more than the other two 

when I first had my license it was for .22 FAC air and .25 FAC air open , but had fox on it , then six months later added 17 HMR & 22lr which were opened as well 

[KimE 487]

Its amazing how different English regulation are to Swedish here we can only use an air rifle for target shooting a .17hmr are only allow for small game like rabbit/crows not fox but we can use 222r for roedeer and lynx. A new hunter here are considered needing 4 rifle/shotguns for example .22rl smallgame/practice, 3006 moose/bear, 12g shotgun for hare/wildfowl and maybe a 223rem or a second shotgun. Experienced hunters can have two more if they can explain how they are going to use them for example a 6,5*55 for birds in top of the trees a semiauto shotgun for goose/ a light 20g for grouse shooting. The hunting examina are the thing who makes you need hunting weapons not ownership/lease of land.

[Alsone 789]

1 hour ago, villaman said:

Never Questioned me for two FAC air , HMR and .22 lr . !!!

i use the FAC air more than the other two 

when I first had my license it was for .22 FAC air and .25 FAC air open , but had fox on it , then six months later added 17 HMR & 22lr which were opened as well 

It always depends on the force. Some forces are really relaxed and helpful. Others bend the rules to the max. Some fall in between.

There's nothing wrong with FAC air. I'd argue it's as good as .22LR and HMR on small vermin such as rabbits, grounded birds and rats. There's plenty of people shoot rabbits and birds in excess of 100yds with FAC air, although usually at those ranges it's slugs and 60ft lbs+ rather than the more common uk  guns which seem to be in the majority in the 30ftlbs range. Still good for almost as long as .22lr though on rabbits. I confess I'm not an expert on air so if experts want to chime in here, feel free..

 I just don't see the need for FAC Air + .22LR + HMR. Any one of those, will perform the same function as the others on vermin, albeit the air can be excluded for fox. It just seems a waste of money. Ultimately if the OP buys and gets all 3, I'd bet 6 months down the line, he uses one and the other 2 sit in the cabinet. That's usally what happens when you have 3 guns fullfilling the same role. You find a favourite and stick with it. 

My 2 cents would be choose between the 3 and get one. I'd tend towards the powder rifles unless shooting in around farm pens in which case the ability to vary power might come in handy to minimise collateral damage to pens and tin walls etc. Bear in mind fox will require a powder rifle.

The 2 above are good for close range fox if your force will allow them. Beyond that, it's 1rf and cf in my opinion, unless you're a professional pest controller in which case your varied cricumstances may dictate a need for a more varied tool chest.

 

[Deker 3,478]

18 minutes ago, Alsone said:

It always depends on the force. Some forces are really relaxed and helpful. Others bend the rules to the max. Some fall in between.

There's nothing wrong with FAC air. I'd argue it's as good as .22LR and HMR on small vermin such as rabbits, grounded birds and rats. There's plenty of people shoot rabbits and birds in excess of 100yds with FAC air, although usually at those ranges it's slugs and 60ft lbs+ rather than the more common uk  guns which seem to be in the majority in the 30ftlbs range. Still good for almost as long as .22lr though on rabbits. I confess I'm not an expert on air so if experts want to chime in here, feel free..

 I just don't see the need for FAC Air + .22LR + HMR. Any one of those, will perform the same function as the others on vermin, albeit the air can be excluded for fox. It just seems a waste of money. Ultimately if the OP buys and gets all 3, I'd bet 6 months down the line, he uses one and the other 2 sit in the cabinet. That's usally what happens when you have 3 guns fullfilling the same role. You find a favourite and stick with it. 

My 2 cents would be choose between the 3 and get one. I'd tend towards the powder rifles unless shooting in around farm pens in which case the ability to vary power might come in handy to minimise collateral damage to pens and tin walls etc. Bear in mind fox will require a powder rifle.

The 2 above are good for close range fox if your force will allow them. Beyond that, it's 1rf and cf in my opinion, unless you're a professional pest controller in which case your varied cricumstances may dictate a need for a more varied tool chest.

 

"There's nothing wrong with FAC air. I'd argue it's as good as .22LR and HMR on small vermin such as rabbits, grounded birds and rats...............................

 I just don't see the need for FAC Air + .22LR + HMR. Any one of those, will perform the same function as the others on vermin"

?????????????? why do you think all those sell, if they all perform the SAME function as the others on vermin!  And who suggested there was something wrong with FAC Air??  They all serve a purpose, they are tools in the box, but to suggest they perform the same function is misguided!

FAC Air starts at 12ft lb and HMR generally runs around the 245ft lb area. Many FAC Air guns are between 20-30ft lb, (of course others are higher), that does NOT perform the same function as a HMR!!!

Edited October 3, 2021 by Deker