Dogs throwing the towel in and breeding.

[sandymere 8,263]

55 minutes ago, moonlighter said:

If a line/type of dog all had similar traits and stamp, I’d breed off a litter mate that wasn’t proven. For example, I had a very well bred coursing dog, bred from some of the best dogs at the time. All the pups looked the same, just like the parents etc. Now the dog I had, lost his nuts due to cancer. If I had a bitch and I was really wanting to use him as stud, but now I can’t, I would use his litter brother that went to a pet home and was nether worked. I would take the risk , as this pet dog would have the same DNA as my top coursing dog. 

Or if still alive use his sire, after all his sire is the proven producer

[leegreen 2,151]

9 hours ago, SheepChaser said:

I was reading some bits on here this morning and it made me think about a few things.

You always hear it said on here and in general that it is a borderline criminal offence to breed a dog that is not “well seasoned” which appears to be 5/6 year old and up. 
 

Two things came to mind. Firstly there will be plenty of dogs that are running well enough at six that have never been pushed and have done less graft than another dog which is three.

Secondly - had anyone actually know a very good dog which was flying after three good seasons where it had seen plenty of work, that then went on to throw the towel in at a later date (4,5,6 year old ?) and where that wasn’t through injury or poor fitness and conditioning etc ?

Just wondered on folks thoughts ? 

Most dogs would throw in the towel sooner or later if pushed too much.

It's knowing your dog, knowing dogs and not knowing dogs that can make or break a dog.

[Borr 5,783]

My tuppence albeit an inexperienced educted guess. Mine are pets first and foremost, one a busher , an accidental mating I took a chance on. The runner a bitch well bred from a repeat mating of similar psychotic (kidding) dogs. I have no doubt that she enjoys confrontational prey and the lack thereof has probably caused me issues as a result. She'll never be 'tested' to the extent of numbers here mentioned or regular work , but if I were to want to continue with running dogs I'd happily use her as a base, I like her temp, she's basically a 26kg terrier, I guess what I'm getting at is I know her kin have done enough, she's alive and healthy to whelp a litter. Personally I'd breed from her if I wanted what she does little of. The busher , realistically he's a bit of a twat , but I'm more likely to have a pup off him as they're just for mooching messing about pets, I think I could bring a pup on a bit different, as ken says , not quite the same breeding standard with knock about mongrel thing than with the all round or specialist lurchers. I still think a good owner , with time, experience and plenty to go at will always do better and make a decent dog great , where as I feel I've made a great dog average. Bit late but in short I'd breed off a young dog if all the signs were good and the line or kin were predominantly doing there job. As for the land JB stated before I went abroad wait and see what the land is like, but I knew I wanted to take a dog with, my bitch had no chance fields were stretching out into the horizon, so as you say horses for courses you want to be seeing the dog run on your land ideally or at least similar land. My bitch certainly does a bit better in the small fields . I'd say an important point , maybe not so much for some, is that you have to enjoy the dog and bond/get along with the breed /temp, anyways all imho.

[gnipper 6,415]

Has anyone ever had an awesome dog bred from jackers or untested young pets?

 When breeding from any stock you get pairings that just click and produce good stock and you can pair best to best and get crap too. You can breed for certain things like looks easily but ability?

[Penda 3,341]

9 hours ago, lurchers said:

A tin of fly spray ficam is far to strong to be wasted on redmite mate.look at the ld50 on it.

That was off topic but thanks for the in put

[Gilbey 1,430]

You can have class dogs and their lesser brother is a better producer

And if you buy pups off strangers, there is only so much you can know and it's fingers crossed

[lurchers 2,761]

31 minutes ago, Penda said:

That was off topic but thanks for the in put

Sorry mate I read it wrong I though you meant spider mite.Is the problem in your chicken shed or bird room.You can use ficam W in either but just be careful you don’t spray the birds with it as it is that potent.

[Tyla 3,179]

2 hours ago, gnipper said:

Has anyone ever had an awesome dog bred from jackers or untested young pets?

 When breeding from any stock you get pairings that just click and produce good stock and you can pair best to best and get crap too. You can breed for certain things like looks easily but ability?

Yes but he was a terrier not a lurcher. Pure sociopath.

[Greb147 6,809]

I think there's a world of difference between breeding from a jacker before it's jacked to breeding from a jacker after it's jacked. 

It still ain't going to change the outcomes of the breeding but who in their right mind would actively breed from a known jacker. 

[jeemes 4,453]

With most Lurchers we go off parents alone, because we usually know next to nothing of the pedigree behind them, or we cant trust what we are told. Colby the famous American APBT breeder would breed from bitches in their first season and be confident of a good outcome. His breeding was very tight and made up of very game if not dead game dogs.

What happens a lot in Lurcher or terrier breeding is people are continually disappointed after putting two good grafters together but getting poor results. What they need to do is study and read up on Mendel and basic genetics to understand Dominant and recessive genes.

Time often means nothing if a dogs mediocre in the first place. 

[gnipper 6,415]

1 hour ago, Greb147 said:

who in their right mind would actively breed from a known jacker. 

A lot more than there should be.

 

[zigzag dan 784]

My family ran an animal feed business for a long time and didn't take me long to realise that it was the same small group of men who had the best livestock no matter what they kept, when they kept lurchers their dogs were top class, pigeons, they won everything, trotting horses, won everything again etc. 

On getting to know them, I realised that they only used, tried and tested lines, fed the best possible feed, and most importantly, didn't keep hold of an average animal whilst kidding themselves that they could make it a world beater. 

I don't know him personally but AS is a good example of these men, dominated the coursing world with Dancer, Blondie etc, did very well with trotters and i believe now is top table with spaniels in the Field Trials game....... Its not just a coincidence. 

[C.green 3,229]

38 minutes ago, zigzag dan said:

My family ran an animal feed business for a long time and didn't take me long to realise that it was the same small group of men who had the best livestock no matter what they kept, when they kept lurchers their dogs were top class, pigeons, they won everything, trotting horses, won everything again etc. 

On getting to know them, I realised that they only used, tried and tested lines, fed the best possible feed, and most importantly, didn't keep hold of an average animal whilst kidding themselves that they could make it a world beater. 

I don't know him personally but AS is a good example of these men, dominated the coursing world with Dancer, Blondie etc, did very well with trotters and i believe now is top table with spaniels in the Field Trials game....... Its not just a coincidence. 

Very very true feller. 

[Mr Wilkes 2,978]

Did someone mention waiting till a dog is six before breeding from it..

[gnipper 6,415]

Surely they didn't use a pup on purpose? The kc won't register them either.

 I've been on shoots listening to people planning on putting such and such a dog over their bitch as soon as it was old enough regardless of wether it turned out ok or not.