Dogs throwing the towel in and breeding.

[lurchers 2,761]

15 hours ago, scottpenn28 said:

Oh god yeah, manipulating a pedigree is easy! I've been asked before if I would use a particular dog as a stud because the chap wanted a pup but then asked if I would register it as his other dog because the dog he wanted a pup of isn't kc registered and is actually a sprocker.  I didnt but would have been easy to do and from experience know that kc dont check up on that! I believe rytex have been in hot water not so long ago because of sprocker bloodline in their dogs, and in particular a dog gifted to a very famous lady

You must be on about mallowdale X factor are you,as I know there was her on about winning a comp one day

[baz123 23]

15 hours ago, SheepChaser said:

I would gift it to my old man he’s the spaniel man in the family. I grew up with about 16 springers in the yard I was very lucky as a kid to spend a fair bit of time around the likes of Ian openshaw, roger towser, Cyril Gwyn and all of that lot. Some incredibly impressive dogs and dog men. 
 

I bet that young dog above would make a lot of ‘seasoned’ dogs in shoots up and down the country look daft by the time it’s 18 months old. 

Maybe so but surely thats down to the trainer tho, who is obviously good at what he does.  Will he know that the dog doesn't fit after day hard graft (seen heaps of springers do it) , bad joints/ to sore to go the next day. Only couple years of hard work shows these things up.  Give me a pup out of a dog thats out every other day working in the season than 1 out a 8 month "stud " of a big name any day regardless the breed. 

[scottpenn28 246]

8 hours ago, jeemes said:

If you have registered dogs about you or reg papers, its possible to register a litter on line that doesnt actually exist, but whos names can be used to create other pedigrees. Just one wrong entry on a pedigree throws the whole lot out. They are worthless in most cases. 

Didnt know could create an entirely fictional line but certainly sounds easy enough to do, although owner of stud had to sign paperwork to say he had sired a litter with his dog to my bitch. Again easily enough to get round I would have thought 

[SheepChaser 8,083]

5 minutes ago, baz123 said:

Maybe so but surely thats down to the trainer tho, who is obviously good at what he does.  Will he know that the dog doesn't fit after day hard graft (seen heaps of springers do it) , bad joints/ to sore to go the next day. Only couple years of hard work shows these things up.  Give me a pup out of a dog thats out every other day working in the season than 1 out a 8 month "stud " of a big name any day regardless the breed. 

Considering those things would mostly be genetic I would hazard a guess he does know.  
 

Edited to add - a good trainer can get the best out of an average dog, but no amount of training can change an animals genetic capabilities.or lack of! 

Edited September 12, 2021 by SheepChaser

[scottpenn28 246]

29 minutes ago, lurchers said:

You must be on about mallowdale X factor are you,as I know there was her on about winning a comp one day

Correct! Won the championship in around 2015 i believe. As an educated guess I would think he isnt/wasn't the only top trainer doing same thing, if indeed it was true. 

[baz123 23]

13 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

Considering those things would mostly be genetic I would hazard a guess he does know.  
 

Edited to add - a good trainer can get the best out of an average dog, but no amount of training can change an animals genetic capabilities.or lack of! 

Can test for some things like hips, eye test etc but only hard work will show up other faults. 

Load of pish the field trial stuff anyway, judged on the c**t at the end of the lead rather than the dog

[Wales1234 5,489]

When I was looking for a stud couple years ago , I had a good think about how much the two dogs caught , one lived in area full of game and caught say 50 of the intended quarry in a season , the other lived in a more difficult area and caught 20 , which ones the Better dog , and it’s not about how much they caught it’s how difficult was those catches ? And same goes for a the bloke I think a lot of men would jack it if there had to work as hard as others to catch stuff some people can walk out there front door and catch all sorts , others including myself have to work hard for the bits we get , 

[SheepChaser 8,083]

1 minute ago, baz123 said:

Can test for some things like hips, eye test etc but only hard work will show up other faults. 

Load of pish the field trial stuff anyway, judged on the c**t at the end of the lead rather than the dog

The things you mentioned...... joint problems and fitting would both be things carried in a line, unless you were really unlucky... it would have reared its head before.

As for field trials being a load or pish is pretty subjective, plenty of ftch can also put a hard shift in on a shoot day. As for being judged on the person.... it ain’t a dog show, the dogs can’t lie on the day .... the best dog wins. 
 

Most dogs I see on shoots are decidedly average. 

[baz123 23]

5 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

The things you mentioned...... joint problems and fitting would both be things carried in a line, unless you were really unlucky... it would have reared its head before.

As for field trials being a load or pish is pretty subjective, plenty of ftch can also put a hard shift in on a shoot day. As for being judged on the person.... it ain’t a dog show, the dogs can’t lie on the day .... the best dog wins. 
 

Most dogs I see on shoots are decidedly average. 

Mine are shite but get out plenty

[Bearfoot 1,477]

I was at a very big shoot now I no one of the beaters he dident come into the residence I said  whys he no coming in I went out to see him he says I've had over 120 days solid iam fcked it was a very wet season I jacked that morning on the geese my bed was to warm if you work any breed to much it will fail no matter hows it breed working for fun and working fr a living are two different things .

[Borr 5,783]

I think sickening and jacking are different too, and anything run with lack of fitness/ability/speed or with injury over and over will sicken , where as jacking would be a prime athlete that is physically capable either not wanting to mix it or run itself to death. As said career over hobby is always going to speed up the inevitable result or force it...some are two quick to judge though I'm sure and dogs can do better in different hands or with rest etc.

[jeemes 4,453]

1 hour ago, scottpenn28 said:

Didnt know could create an entirely fictional line but certainly sounds easy enough to do, although owner of stud had to sign paperwork to say he had sired a litter with his dog to my bitch. Again easily enough to get round I would have thought 

If you own both parents on paper I mean. 

[Black neck 15,855]

2 hours ago, Wales1234 said:

When I was looking for a stud couple years ago , I had a good think about how much the two dogs caught , one lived in area full of game and caught say 50 of the intended quarry in a season , the other lived in a more difficult area and caught 20 , which ones the Better dog , and it’s not about how much they caught it’s how difficult was those catches ? And same goes for a the bloke I think a lot of men would jack it if there had to work as hard as others to catch stuff some people can walk out there front door and catch all sorts , others including myself have to work hard for the bits we get , 

He who dares wins rodney 

[jcm 2,327]

Seen 2 dogs jack later in in life one was about 7 when it threw the towel in after being a constant fox killer and the other in my opinion was down to the owner giving the dog work when it should of been lay beside the fire as it was about 11 and to me was just to old and worn for the work and should have never seen a thing that season.

If it were my dog it would if been tagging along for the odd mooch not out lamping because in its day it was an impressive animal and probably one of the most consistent dogs i have seen, they type you could rely on and always got the job done no mater how much you gave him.

Like has been said one was fit and more than capable for the work the other in my opinion was just to old and when i seen it spit a fox i told the owner that the dog was just to old and couldn't handle the work no more.

[Borr 5,783]

I was walking a pup I had in the valleys and happened into a chap who was shooting a bit close to me, to warn me away from walking near a field or whatever, so I went over to chat as he was shouting at me lol. Turns out he was the local go to guy to have a dog shot, and told stories of dogs being shot on the lead unexpectedly by their owner etc who didn't want to witness the deed, this although odd to tell a stranger wasn't anything particularly odd, but then told me of his bull X's and how his best bitch spat a fox at 9 years old and had been a solid dependable dog her whole life but he only kept workers and shot her on the spot. This for me wasn't respecting an animal that had given its life to his entertainment at the end of it, not to even get a last meal, never mind a fireside retirement. Not for me ....