Dogs throwing the towel in and breeding.

[SheepChaser 8,083]

I was reading some bits on here this morning and it made me think about a few things.

You always hear it said on here and in general that it is a borderline criminal offence to breed a dog that is not “well seasoned” which appears to be 5/6 year old and up. 
 

Two things came to mind. Firstly there will be plenty of dogs that are running well enough at six that have never been pushed and have done less graft than another dog which is three.

Secondly - had anyone actually know a very good dog which was flying after three good seasons where it had seen plenty of work, that then went on to throw the towel in at a later date (4,5,6 year old ?) and where that wasn’t through injury or poor fitness and conditioning etc ?

Just wondered on folks thoughts ? 

[Black neck 15,899]

44 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

I was reading some bits on here this morning and it made me think about a few things.

You always hear it said on here and in general that it is a borderline criminal offence to breed a dog that is not “well seasoned” which appears to be 5/6 year old and up. 
 

Two things came to mind. Firstly there will be plenty of dogs that are running well enough at six that have never been pushed and have done less graft than another dog which is three.

Secondly - had anyone actually know a very good dog which was flying after three good seasons where it had seen plenty of work, that then went on to throw the towel in at a later date (4,5,6 year old ?) and where that wasn’t through injury or poor fitness and conditioning etc ?

Just wondered on folks thoughts ? 

Yah for sure also seen quit at 3 year old after a few chances then following season never show so much as a sign of backing up or spitting for rest on its life ,

Bit iffy tho int it 

[Black neck 15,899]

4 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Ofcourse older dogs can jack or throw towel in, iv saw it even on rabbits an hares, lamp an daytime, that’s just summat folk breeding off young stock tell themselves imho. 

 

If you wanna breed, breed but trying to use things like posted above to justify it is horse shite, just be honest am say the dogs young I like it, blah blah blah an breed it, it’s yours, can tell anyways as folk usually start talking about breeding off dogs an bitches before they saw a full season so there minds are already made up of you ask me 

Breed off them before they done anything then you can say it's never jacked and never missed anything     

[Bosun11 537]

All dependent on bloodlines and graft...

And for me, with lurchers, graft wins hands down. I'd rather take a pup off a dog that i know has been grafted hard at 3 year old, than one from a dog thats say 7 and though worked steadily, has hardly been pushed.

Point of fact for me, is who is on the other end of the lead... Mad keen owners don't keep shite, they can't afford to...

[SheepChaser 8,083]

Interesting thoughts ......

Just for the record I’ve never bred a litter of Lurchers in my life ...... and the only bitches I have in my kennels are 13 and 6 months I had one dog I thought was worth breeding off, a cracker, and I waited until she was a ‘proper’ age and lined her, she was dead shortly after. Pretty much regretted not breeding her earlier and getting some pups on the ground. It left us with one animal out of that litter left which we bred (don’t worry she was five ) and that’s mam to my pup.

 

Anyway I digress. I see plenty of folk advocating using certain dogs of the right age on here and in general but which have probably not done a huge amount. I know dogs half their age who have done far far more. For arguments sake we aren’t talking rabbits, but let’s say a fox dog. Which is more tested - a six year old dog which has 5 seasons, 4 of which they have caught Charlie, maybe 10 to 20 a season. Another dog had only had three good seasons on them but owner has put the miles and time in, and killed 50-100 a season single handed. Which one is more tested and worth breeding off and which is more likely to jack the following season ?

Has anyone seen a decent fox dog that did good numbers first three seasons but then jacked in later life with no other excuse than heart ?
 

I think if it like terriers - there are lads digging a dog 100 times a season and lads digging a dog 20 times. Does that make age irrelevant ?  
 

 

[SheepChaser 8,083]

5 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Why beat about the bush what’re who you getting at

Nobody in particular mate. I was just seeing if folk were still capable of having an actual discussion with various opinions without it just being a slanging match. 

[Black neck 15,899]

27 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Mate if that’s what folk wanna do, an look on the selling pages it deffo happens then that’s upto them, it’s just doing that an lying about it that grips my shite. Like I said if you wanna breed but need to justify it, then maybe you shouldn’t but if you do, so what?? They yours but just ne honest about the pups an parents

Oh I agree but wears the fun in that

[SheepChaser 8,083]

3 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Another thing that tickles me is the amount of folk who suggest a dog for someone to use over there bitch, but chances are they never saw the dog work, an prob never saw bitch either

Yes that’s very common here - “if you’re looking for x cross I would go to xx dog 100%” and they’ve never even seen the dog in the flesh. Makes it more awkward reading if you have seen it go, or not as the case may be  

[SheepChaser 8,083]

Just now, W. Katchum said:

Och fcuk off then ye boring Cnut

Be interesting to see if anyone can actually answer the question though .

[Bosun11 537]

1 hour ago, SheepChaser said:

I was reading some bits on here this morning and it made me think about a few things.

You always hear it said on here and in general that it is a borderline criminal offence to breed a dog that is not “well seasoned” which appears to be 5/6 year old and up. 
 

Two things came to mind. Firstly there will be plenty of dogs that are running well enough at six that have never been pushed and have done less graft than another dog which is three.

Secondly - had anyone actually know a very good dog which was flying after three good seasons where it had seen plenty of work, that then went on to throw the towel in at a later date (4,5,6 year old ?) and where that wasn’t through injury or poor fitness and conditioning etc ?

Just wondered on folks thoughts ? 

Yes, i've seen dogs spew after a couple of hard seasons but after a third, most that stick with it get harder.

It's a risk you take if you want a pup out of younger dogs but there's risk in every step your new pup takes, no matter what it's parentage and NOTHING is gauranteed...

With lurchers you can breed best to best and get onions and then breed onions and get a world beater..!

[Ferretman65 2,203]

Theres all sorts of reasons for Dogs throwing in the towel or Jacking in could be fitness could be just to smart I've seen all breeds do this even first x bulls every dog is an Individual specially lamping dog getting pushed to much and in my opinion u should always bred from the best u can get 

[bird 9,872]

1 minute ago, sid g said:

heres another thought do you take a pup off 2 working parents with 3 seasons behind them or 2 parents that have never grafted  but have 6 generations of workers in the breeding . 

fair answer sid,  now ive been reading on a apbt  site , where 2 well bred game dogs off  lines of proven dogs in the box, and yet out of say a litter of 8 pups, you might only get 2-3  real game dogs . the rest classed as curs , but them curs would be on different level to most type dogs. so  even the best dog and bitches lurchers , gundogs, terriers etc   still throw crap.  and in lurchers , i say up to 3-   5 year old there at there best, regards speed/strike , lets face it a 3 year old fit dog , should give you its best in the field , i should imagine  that would be the same as coursing dog, over 5 all dogs loose bit of pace. and regards teeth job , a dog can jack any time , if get wacked all the while  and not rested to heal proper, ive always thought my self try to get a pup from proven parents , but even from say 6 year old parent's , you still dont know if your pup will be as good as them .? 

[SheepChaser 8,083]

12 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Mate al dogs have breaking points, if the owner is one them guys, then even older dogs will jack, some will die doing a job, but most will walk when they had enough an they ain’t robots  Your trying to make it sound as tho once a dogs grafting it is a guaranteed thing, well it ain’t 

Not saying they are mate, just genuinely curious if anyone has known a well tested and seasoned dog in terms of numbers just give up heart. Not down to owner f**k up. By what you’re saying it would make little difference how old a dog is as they can always jack. Which is obviously true, but I have not met a good dog with a good owner which has done a lot by end of third season which has just lost heart and walked away in its next season on day a fox. All dogs hve a breaking point as you say, but if it’s a continuous plane of work, do you know more what you have at age six then age four ? 

[Black neck 15,899]

20 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Another thing that tickles me is the amount of folk who suggest a dog for someone to use over there bitch, but chances are they never saw the dog work, an prob never saw bitch either

I think rays buck will be ideal ower your kelpie x pal  

[Bosun11 537]

4 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

Not saying they are mate, just genuinely curious if anyone has known a well tested and seasoned dog in terms of numbers just give up heart. Not down to owner f**k up. By what you’re saying it would make little difference how old a dog is as they can always jack. Which is obviously true, but I have not met a good dog with a good owner which has done a lot by end of third season which has just lost heart and walked away in its next season on day a fox. All dogs hve a breaking point as you say, but if it’s a continuous plane of work, do you know more what you have at age six then age four ? 

You do but as you know, many of the best (well grafted) dogs don't make old bones...

So which is the greater risk, taking a litter out of that 3/4 year old, or holding on for another couple of seasons, where the same dog may end up dead before you get chance...?