Pye bred dogs

[Black neck 15,849]

2 hours ago, joe ox said:

Thanks 

He also said you couldn't look up for fear o drowning 

[Bosun11 537]

On 13/08/2021 at 06:52, Greb147 said:

So it wasn't much of a producer, don't see what all the fuss is about then?

Like I said, ten a penny for it's day and age.

If you don't think other dogs could do what's asked of them single handed then you're wrong mate.

Keep thinking about my first reply to this post and keep thinking i should of given the old dog a bit more, rather than try and be almost uninterested... I also should have give Blackmag some help with this too, as he was fighting Pye's corner alone.

As to answer the first part, Pye IMO was a great producer BUT at his best only when linings were kept tight. The two litters he produced with Otter, his litter sister, were top draw. He produced 3/4's & 5/8th's that were also very good. But Pye was put up for general stud and because of his reputation any old bollox was put under him and rightly, many didn't make much cop...

Ten a penny... Well, there were a fair few decent bull cross dogs about then i'd agree, different times. Thing is, Wigan and the surrounding towns, including Manchester (though not Liverpool) were full of decent bull greyhound bred dogs and lets face it, almost all were out of better gear that's around today and almost all were single handed dogs. So what gave the Pye dog a reputation that, at that time, got his name spread and a que to put bitches under him and a reputation both back then and still to this day, with threads like this? The answer to that is that 'if you have to ask, you'll never know'... His ability is NOT to be talked about in detail on an open forum but to use the Wigan lads words on the night as he tore his quarry to bits 'It's sick that dog'... He killed another three that night and i'd seen enough... Thing is, he could run too, that dog could catch every type of quarry put infront of him. He had pace, he had stamina (and just for the record, those that think bull blooded dogs have no wind... I'm sorry but any genuine game bred APBT trained right has stamina aplenty. A dog trained for battle, direct combat, that can last up to two hours plus MUST have stamina. Any fool can see that!)

The same ability can be said for his direct offspring, both Dee and Spike could kill quarry as good as their sire, though they did have more panche about the job! 

I remember being out with Spike, he killed the first 2 of the quarry he was slipped on, (though 'slipped' is the wrong word as he was almost never on a lead and went when told) and when i asked what he was like on rabbits, he caught and carried back his bunny like it was made of glass, with a retrieve of a gun dog and we went on catching rabbits for the rest of the night like he was made for the job! Dee was just the same, as was Ice. As where his 5/8's sons and daughters, Clogg was superb, so was the 5'/8'ths i owned called Dutchess.

The half bred called Buck i had from Dee, to another Pye half cross which went to coursing's CN, was every bit as good as his grandsire. Leggy and rock hard, he could kill his bigger quarry with ease and catch fox, hares and roe on a nights lamping. Fast enough, he caught hares daytime too. Now lets not be under any illusion i'm saying he was any sort of specialist at hares BUT he took enough in his years to prove his speed and strike for what he was, a third gen half bred) Tess was a bit more short and square but she could kill bigger quarry and foxes easily enough, decent on bunnies too, i had some geat bags from her, she could run all night!

Ox, the last line bred half cross i kept, out of Ged (out of Dee) and Tess (out of Spike to a bitch out of Otter) was the image of his grandsire, he was fast and could kill his quarry, i thought he was gonna be real special but he lost an eye in his second real season and though i kept lamping him, he could only kill critters that turned left..! Because of this he ran over the edge of a deep sided drainage ditch out lamping and though i kept him on, sadly he was never the same. There were others in the line that were excellent also.

All the dogs i seen killed like no dogs i've seen since, all dogs mentioned were natural retrievers, all had fine temperaments with both dogs and people.

Some of the dogs mentioned are in my gallery, if anyone wants to look.

As i've said, back down this thread, there are lads who still keep this line tight. Getting harder now, but the blood still exists... I've never met anyone who owned a close bred dog from this line to ever say a bad word about em and almost all wished they still had their dog.

Now, and this is the crux...

By writing all this i'm in no way saying the Pye dog or any of his line are in any way any better than any other line of bull bloods... Back when i seen and owned mine, i didn't know of any other lines of bull greyhounds in the country, the world was a different place back then! So my view of them, us just that, my view. I only know of other lines from what has been written on forums like this over the years since and from a couple of lads i know and trust (they wouldn't keep shite!)

So single handed (fox) dogs are out there, i know that and this is what i know about Pye and his line... BUT my knowlage and views are from years ago, make of that what you will...

 

[dytkos 17,783]

22 minutes ago, Bosun11 said:

Keep thinking about my first reply to this post and keep thinking i should of given the old dog a bit more, rather than try and be almost uninterested... I also should have give Blackmag some help with this too, as he was fighting Pye's corner alone.

As to answer the first part, Pye IMO was a great producer BUT at his best only when linings were kept tight. The two litters he produced with Otter, his litter sister, were top draw. He produced 3/4's & 5/8th's that were also very good. But Pye was put up for general stud and because of his reputation any old bollox was put under him and rightly, many didn't make much cop...

Ten a penny... Well, there were a fair few decent bull cross dogs about then i'd agree, different times. Thing is, Wigan and the surrounding towns, including Manchester (though not Liverpool) were full of decent bull greyhound bred dogs and lets face it, almost all were out of better gear that's around today and almost all were single handed dogs. So what gave the Pye dog a reputation that, at that time, got his name spread, people talking and a que to put bitches under him? The answer to that is that 'if you have to ask, you'll never know'... His ability is NOT to be talked about in detail on an open forum but to use the Wigan lads words that night as he tore his quarry to bits 'It's sick that dog'... He killed another three that night and i'd seen enough... Thing is, he could run too, that dog could catch every type of quarry put infront of him. He had pace, he had stamina (and just for the record, those that think bull blooded dogs have no wind... I'm sorry but any genuine game bred APBT trained right has stamina aplenty. A dog trained for battle, direct combat, that can last up to two hours plus MUST have stamina. Any fool can see that!)

The same ability can be said for his direct offspring, both Dee and Spike could kill quarry as good as their sire, though they did have more panche about the job! I remember being out with Spike, he killed the first 2 of the quarry he was slipped on, (though 'slipped' is the wrong word as he was almost never on a lead and went when told) and when i asked what he was like on rabbits, he caught and carried back his bunny like it was made of glass, with a retrieve of a gun dog and we went on catching rabbits for the rest of the night! Dee was just the same, as was Ice. As where his 5/8's sons and daughters, Clogg was superb, so was the 5'/8'ths i owned called Dutchess.

The half bred called Buck i had from Dee, to another Pye half cross which went to coursing's CN, was every bit as good as his grandsire. Leggy and rock hard, he could kill his bigger quarry with ease and catch fox, hares and roe on a nights lamping. Fast enough, he caught hares daytime too. Now lets not be under any illusion i'm saying he was any sort of specialist at hares BUT he took enough in his years to prove his speed and strike for what he was, a third gen half bred) Tess was a bit more short and square but she could kill bigger quarry and foxes easily enough, decent on bunnies too, i had some geat bags from her, she could run all night!

Ox, the last line bred half cross i kept, out of Ged (out of Dee) and Tess (out of Spike to a bitch out of Otter) was the image of his grandsire, he was fast and could kill his quarry, i thought he was gonna be real special but he lost an eye in his second real season and though i kept lamping him, he could only kill critters that turned left..! Because of this he ran over the edge of a deep sided drainage ditch out lamping and though i kept him on, sadly he was never the same. There were others in the line that were excellent also.

All the dogs mentioned killed like no dogs i've seen since, all dogs mentioned were natural retrievers, all had fine temperaments with both dogs and people.

Some of the dogs mentioned are in  my gallery, if anyone wants to look.

As i've said, back down this thread, there are lads who still keep this line tight. Getting harder now, but the blood still exists...

Now, and this is the crux...

By writing all this i'm in no way saying the Pye dog or any of his line are in any way any better than any other line of bull bloods... Back when i seen and owned mine, i didn't know of any other lines of bull greyhounds in the country, the world was a different place back then! So my view of them, us just that, my view. I only know of other lines from what has been written on forums like this over the years since and from a couple of lads i know and trust (they wouldn't keep shite!)

So single handed (and that depends on what your trying to kill) dogs are out there, i know that and this is what i know about Pye and his line... BUT my knowlage and views are from years ago, make of that what you will...

 

Great post mate

Cheers, D.

[Countryman62 541]

23 minutes ago, Bosun11 said:

Keep thinking about my first reply to this post and keep thinking i should of given the old dog a bit more, rather than try and be almost uninterested... I also should have give Blackmag some help with this too, as he was fighting Pye's corner alone.

As to answer the first part, Pye IMO was a great producer BUT at his best only when linings were kept tight. The two litters he produced with Otter, his litter sister, were top draw. He produced 3/4's & 5/8th's that were also very good. But Pye was put up for general stud and because of his reputation any old bollox was put under him and rightly, many didn't make much cop...

Ten a penny... Well, there were a fair few decent bull cross dogs about then i'd agree, different times. Thing is, Wigan and the surrounding towns, including Manchester (though not Liverpool) were full of decent bull greyhound bred dogs and lets face it, almost all were out of better gear that's around today and almost all were single handed dogs. So what gave the Pye dog a reputation that, at that time, got his name spread, people talking and a que to put bitches under him? The answer to that is that 'if you have to ask, you'll never know'... His ability is NOT to be talked about in detail on an open forum but to use the Wigan lads words that night as he tore his quarry to bits 'It's sick that dog'... He killed another three that night and i'd seen enough... Thing is, he could run too, that dog could catch every type of quarry put infront of him. He had pace, he had stamina (and just for the record, those that think bull blooded dogs have no wind... I'm sorry but any genuine game bred APBT trained right has stamina aplenty. A dog trained for battle, direct combat, that can last up to two hours plus MUST have stamina. Any fool can see that!)

The same ability can be said for his direct offspring, both Dee and Spike could kill quarry as good as their sire, though they did have more panche about the job! I remember being out with Spike, he killed the first 2 of the quarry he was slipped on, (though 'slipped' is the wrong word as he was almost never on a lead and went when told) and when i asked what he was like on rabbits, he caught and carried back his bunny like it was made of glass, with a retrieve of a gun dog and we went on catching rabbits for the rest of the night! Dee was just the same, as was Ice. As where his 5/8's sons and daughters, Clogg was superb, so was the 5'/8'ths i owned called Dutchess.

The half bred called Buck i had from Dee, to another Pye half cross which went to coursing's CN, was every bit as good as his grandsire. Leggy and rock hard, he could kill his bigger quarry with ease and catch fox, hares and roe on a nights lamping. Fast enough, he caught hares daytime too. Now lets not be under any illusion i'm saying he was any sort of specialist at hares BUT he took enough in his years to prove his speed and strike for what he was, a third gen half bred) Tess was a bit more short and square but she could kill bigger quarry and foxes easily enough, decent on bunnies too, i had some geat bags from her, she could run all night!

Ox, the last line bred half cross i kept, out of Ged (out of Dee) and Tess (out of Spike to a bitch out of Otter) was the image of his grandsire, he was fast and could kill his quarry, i thought he was gonna be real special but he lost an eye in his second real season and though i kept lamping him, he could only kill critters that turned left..! Because of this he ran over the edge of a deep sided drainage ditch out lamping and though i kept him on, sadly he was never the same. There were others in the line that were excellent also.

All the dogs mentioned killed like no dogs i've seen since, all dogs mentioned were natural retrievers, all had fine temperaments with both dogs and people.

Some of the dogs mentioned are in  my gallery, if anyone wants to look.

As i've said, back down this thread, there are lads who still keep this line tight. Getting harder now, but the blood still exists...

Now, and this is the crux...

By writing all this i'm in no way saying the Pye dog or any of his line are in any way any better than any other line of bull bloods... Back when i seen and owned mine, i didn't know of any other lines of bull greyhounds in the country, the world was a different place back then! So my view of them, us just that, my view. I only know of other lines from what has been written on forums like this over the years since and from a couple of lads i know and trust (they wouldn't keep shite!)

So single handed (and that depends on what your trying to kill) dogs are out there, i know that and this is what i know about Pye and his line... BUT my knowlage and views are from years ago, make of that what you will...

 

Good post sir

[zigzag dan 784]

10 hours ago, Bosun11 said:

Keep thinking about my first reply to this post and keep thinking i should of given the old dog a bit more, rather than try and be almost uninterested... I also should have give Blackmag some help with this too, as he was fighting Pye's corner alone.

As to answer the first part, Pye IMO was a great producer BUT at his best only when linings were kept tight. The two litters he produced with Otter, his litter sister, were top draw. He produced 3/4's & 5/8th's that were also very good. But Pye was put up for general stud and because of his reputation any old bollox was put under him and rightly, many didn't make much cop...

Ten a penny... Well, there were a fair few decent bull cross dogs about then i'd agree, different times. Thing is, Wigan and the surrounding towns, including Manchester (though not Liverpool) were full of decent bull greyhound bred dogs and lets face it, almost all were out of better gear that's around today and almost all were single handed dogs. So what gave the Pye dog a reputation that, at that time, got his name spread and a que to put bitches under him and a reputation both back then and still to this day, with threads like this? The answer to that is that 'if you have to ask, you'll never know'... His ability is NOT to be talked about in detail on an open forum but to use the Wigan lads words on the night as he tore his quarry to bits 'It's sick that dog'... He killed another three that night and i'd seen enough... Thing is, he could run too, that dog could catch every type of quarry put infront of him. He had pace, he had stamina (and just for the record, those that think bull blooded dogs have no wind... I'm sorry but any genuine game bred APBT trained right has stamina aplenty. A dog trained for battle, direct combat, that can last up to two hours plus MUST have stamina. Any fool can see that!)

The same ability can be said for his direct offspring, both Dee and Spike could kill quarry as good as their sire, though they did have more panche about the job! 

I remember being out with Spike, he killed the first 2 of the quarry he was slipped on, (though 'slipped' is the wrong word as he was almost never on a lead and went when told) and when i asked what he was like on rabbits, he caught and carried back his bunny like it was made of glass, with a retrieve of a gun dog and we went on catching rabbits for the rest of the night like he was made for the job! Dee was just the same, as was Ice. As where his 5/8's sons and daughters, Clogg was superb, so was the 5'/8'ths i owned called Dutchess.

The half bred called Buck i had from Dee, to another Pye half cross which went to coursing's CN, was every bit as good as his grandsire. Leggy and rock hard, he could kill his bigger quarry with ease and catch fox, hares and roe on a nights lamping. Fast enough, he caught hares daytime too. Now lets not be under any illusion i'm saying he was any sort of specialist at hares BUT he took enough in his years to prove his speed and strike for what he was, a third gen half bred) Tess was a bit more short and square but she could kill bigger quarry and foxes easily enough, decent on bunnies too, i had some geat bags from her, she could run all night!

Ox, the last line bred half cross i kept, out of Ged (out of Dee) and Tess (out of Spike to a bitch out of Otter) was the image of his grandsire, he was fast and could kill his quarry, i thought he was gonna be real special but he lost an eye in his second real season and though i kept lamping him, he could only kill critters that turned left..! Because of this he ran over the edge of a deep sided drainage ditch out lamping and though i kept him on, sadly he was never the same. There were others in the line that were excellent also.

All the dogs i seen killed like no dogs i've seen since, all dogs mentioned were natural retrievers, all had fine temperaments with both dogs and people.

Some of the dogs mentioned are in my gallery, if anyone wants to look.

As i've said, back down this thread, there are lads who still keep this line tight. Getting harder now, but the blood still exists... I've never met anyone who owned a close bred dog from this line to ever say a bad word about em and almost all whished they still had their dog.

Now, and this is the crux...

By writing all this i'm in no way saying the Pye dog or any of his line are in any way any better than any other line of bull bloods... Back when i seen and owned mine, i didn't know of any other lines of bull greyhounds in the country, the world was a different place back then! So my view of them, us just that, my view. I only know of other lines from what has been written on forums like this over the years since and from a couple of lads i know and trust (they wouldn't keep shite!)

So single handed (fox) dogs are out there, i know that and this is what i know about Pye and his line... BUT my knowlage and views are from years ago, make of that what you will...

 

Superb, honest statement, proves that you MUST keep the lines tight and not use any old bitch to a top sire.

[Neobliviscaris1776 1,998]

10 hours ago, Bosun11 said:

Keep thinking about my first reply to this post and keep thinking i should of given the old dog a bit more, rather than try and be almost uninterested... I also should have give Blackmag some help with this too, as he was fighting Pye's corner alone.

As to answer the first part, Pye IMO was a great producer BUT at his best only when linings were kept tight. The two litters he produced with Otter, his litter sister, were top draw. He produced 3/4's & 5/8th's that were also very good. But Pye was put up for general stud and because of his reputation any old bollox was put under him and rightly, many didn't make much cop...

Ten a penny... Well, there were a fair few decent bull cross dogs about then i'd agree, different times. Thing is, Wigan and the surrounding towns, including Manchester (though not Liverpool) were full of decent bull greyhound bred dogs and lets face it, almost all were out of better gear that's around today and almost all were single handed dogs. So what gave the Pye dog a reputation that, at that time, got his name spread and a que to put bitches under him and a reputation both back then and still to this day, with threads like this? The answer to that is that 'if you have to ask, you'll never know'... His ability is NOT to be talked about in detail on an open forum but to use the Wigan lads words on the night as he tore his quarry to bits 'It's sick that dog'... He killed another three that night and i'd seen enough... Thing is, he could run too, that dog could catch every type of quarry put infront of him. He had pace, he had stamina (and just for the record, those that think bull blooded dogs have no wind... I'm sorry but any genuine game bred APBT trained right has stamina aplenty. A dog trained for battle, direct combat, that can last up to two hours plus MUST have stamina. Any fool can see that!)

The same ability can be said for his direct offspring, both Dee and Spike could kill quarry as good as their sire, though they did have more panche about the job! 

I remember being out with Spike, he killed the first 2 of the quarry he was slipped on, (though 'slipped' is the wrong word as he was almost never on a lead and went when told) and when i asked what he was like on rabbits, he caught and carried back his bunny like it was made of glass, with a retrieve of a gun dog and we went on catching rabbits for the rest of the night like he was made for the job! Dee was just the same, as was Ice. As where his 5/8's sons and daughters, Clogg was superb, so was the 5'/8'ths i owned called Dutchess.

The half bred called Buck i had from Dee, to another Pye half cross which went to coursing's CN, was every bit as good as his grandsire. Leggy and rock hard, he could kill his bigger quarry with ease and catch fox, hares and roe on a nights lamping. Fast enough, he caught hares daytime too. Now lets not be under any illusion i'm saying he was any sort of specialist at hares BUT he took enough in his years to prove his speed and strike for what he was, a third gen half bred) Tess was a bit more short and square but she could kill bigger quarry and foxes easily enough, decent on bunnies too, i had some geat bags from her, she could run all night!

Ox, the last line bred half cross i kept, out of Ged (out of Dee) and Tess (out of Spike to a bitch out of Otter) was the image of his grandsire, he was fast and could kill his quarry, i thought he was gonna be real special but he lost an eye in his second real season and though i kept lamping him, he could only kill critters that turned left..! Because of this he ran over the edge of a deep sided drainage ditch out lamping and though i kept him on, sadly he was never the same. There were others in the line that were excellent also.

All the dogs i seen killed like no dogs i've seen since, all dogs mentioned were natural retrievers, all had fine temperaments with both dogs and people.

Some of the dogs mentioned are in my gallery, if anyone wants to look.

As i've said, back down this thread, there are lads who still keep this line tight. Getting harder now, but the blood still exists... I've never met anyone who owned a close bred dog from this line to ever say a bad word about em and almost all whished they still had their dog.

Now, and this is the crux...

By writing all this i'm in no way saying the Pye dog or any of his line are in any way any better than any other line of bull bloods... Back when i seen and owned mine, i didn't know of any other lines of bull greyhounds in the country, the world was a different place back then! So my view of them, us just that, my view. I only know of other lines from what has been written on forums like this over the years since and from a couple of lads i know and trust (they wouldn't keep shite!)

So single handed (fox) dogs are out there, i know that and this is what i know about Pye and his line... BUT my knowledge and views are from years ago, make of that what you will...

 

Enjoyed reading that mate

[OldPhil 5,656]

7 hours ago, zigzag dan said:

Superb, honest statement, proves that you MUST keep the lines tight and not use any old bitch to a top sire.

 I've scant knowledge of Bull bred Lurchers,.. however,...I would endorse that advice regarding breeding..

I remember , many years ago when I kept 'Hard Blood' , non pedigree, race whippets..

My stock was used mostly for hunting, and the inevitable injuries sustained whilst coursing and roustabout rabbiting, ensured that we were forever in sick bay, and our attendance on Sunday morning race day, was pretty lack-lustre

Accordingly, I fancied that I could produce a world beater by putting my bitches to Top Class racing Studs.

Nowadays, things might possibly be different,..money seems to be the Master....but,.back then I was firmly put in my place...and it taught me a great lesson....

I had approached a well known Whippeteer and requested that he put his noted Stud Dog, across my bitches...

His answer was short and sweet..

"Phil,..your dogs are not in the same league as this animal...To be honest mate,..your dogs are only second rate, and by putting poor runners to this jukel, you will achieve nothing...Sorry, you cannot use him..."

Now, at the time, I was too dumb to understand this attitude,..but after a lifetime spent with running dogs, I kinda agree with the concept of putting the best you have, to the best you can find,..and then,..praying to feck that it all works out.

Obviously, this is all pure conjecture on my part,...my time has passed and my standards are now, extremely,..lowly

But, for them as cares,....I do believe the method certainly ups the odds,...no guarantees,..but, it ups the odds..

All the best, Brothers, and stay safe...regards, OldPhil

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by OldPhil

[joe ox 2,574]

Good post bosun11 but I fear mCDULL will be on shortly to tell us just how usless half x are and how much better a coursing dog is  

Edited August 18, 2021 by joe ox

[chartpolski 23,103]

10 minutes ago, OldPhil said:

 I've scant knowledge of Bull bred Lurchers,.. however,...I would endorse that advice regarding breeding..

I remember , many years ago when I kept 'Hard Blood' , non pedigree, race whippets..

My stock was used mostly for hunting, and the inevitable injuries sustained whilst coursing and roustabout rabbiting, ensured that we were forever in sick bay, and our attendance on Sunday morning race day, was pretty lack-lustre

Accordingly, I fancied that I could produce a world beater by putting my bitches to Top Class racing Studs.

Nowadays, things might possibly be different,..money seems to be the Master....but,.back then I was firmly put in my place...and it taught me a great lesson....

I had approached a well known Whippeteer and requested that he put his noted Stud Dog, across my bitches...

His answer was short and sweet..

"Phil,..your dogs are not in the same league as this animal...To be honest mate,..your dogs are only second rate, and by putting poor runners to this jukel, you will achieve nothing...Sorry, you cannot use him..."

Now, at the time, I was too dumb to understand this attitude,..but after a lifetime spent with running dogs, I kinda agree with the concept of putting the best you have, to the best you can find,..and then,..praying to feck that it all works out.

Obviously, this is all pure conjecture on my part,...my time has passed and my standards are now, extremely,..lowly

But, for them as cares,....I do believe the method certainly ups the odds,...no guarantees,..but, it ups the odds..

All the best, Brothers, and stay safe...regards, OldPhil

This is why I hold the non-ped in high regard !

Back in the 60's, if we wanted a litter from our bitch, we went to a mates, or next door neighbours dog, but as transport and communications became more available, we travelled further afield and our eyes were opened to what was out there.

Then it became a case of putting the best to the best. If you look at the "pedigrees" of the non-peds, ( a contradiction in terms, I know, but bare with me), you'll see, with the exception of the greyhound added now and again, the ancestors are littered with Sup Ch, Rch, Nch, ScrCh, titles.

And go back just a few generations and you see the great stud dogs of the past in almost every successful dogs history, normally back to those two greats, Bilko and Blue Peter.

If it works for whippets, it'll work for lurchers

Cheers.

[Black neck 15,849]

12 hours ago, Bosun11 said:

Keep thinking about my first reply to this post and keep thinking i should of given the old dog a bit more, rather than try and be almost uninterested... I also should have give Blackmag some help with this too, as he was fighting Pye's corner alone.

As to answer the first part, Pye IMO was a great producer BUT at his best only when linings were kept tight. The two litters he produced with Otter, his litter sister, were top draw. He produced 3/4's & 5/8th's that were also very good. But Pye was put up for general stud and because of his reputation any old bollox was put under him and rightly, many didn't make much cop...

Ten a penny... Well, there were a fair few decent bull cross dogs about then i'd agree, different times. Thing is, Wigan and the surrounding towns, including Manchester (though not Liverpool) were full of decent bull greyhound bred dogs and lets face it, almost all were out of better gear that's around today and almost all were single handed dogs. So what gave the Pye dog a reputation that, at that time, got his name spread and a que to put bitches under him and a reputation both back then and still to this day, with threads like this? The answer to that is that 'if you have to ask, you'll never know'... His ability is NOT to be talked about in detail on an open forum but to use the Wigan lads words on the night as he tore his quarry to bits 'It's sick that dog'... He killed another three that night and i'd seen enough... Thing is, he could run too, that dog could catch every type of quarry put infront of him. He had pace, he had stamina (and just for the record, those that think bull blooded dogs have no wind... I'm sorry but any genuine game bred APBT trained right has stamina aplenty. A dog trained for battle, direct combat, that can last up to two hours plus MUST have stamina. Any fool can see that!)

The same ability can be said for his direct offspring, both Dee and Spike could kill quarry as good as their sire, though they did have more panche about the job! 

I remember being out with Spike, he killed the first 2 of the quarry he was slipped on, (though 'slipped' is the wrong word as he was almost never on a lead and went when told) and when i asked what he was like on rabbits, he caught and carried back his bunny like it was made of glass, with a retrieve of a gun dog and we went on catching rabbits for the rest of the night like he was made for the job! Dee was just the same, as was Ice. As where his 5/8's sons and daughters, Clogg was superb, so was the 5'/8'ths i owned called Dutchess.

The half bred called Buck i had from Dee, to another Pye half cross which went to coursing's CN, was every bit as good as his grandsire. Leggy and rock hard, he could kill his bigger quarry with ease and catch fox, hares and roe on a nights lamping. Fast enough, he caught hares daytime too. Now lets not be under any illusion i'm saying he was any sort of specialist at hares BUT he took enough in his years to prove his speed and strike for what he was, a third gen half bred) Tess was a bit more short and square but she could kill bigger quarry and foxes easily enough, decent on bunnies too, i had some geat bags from her, she could run all night!

Ox, the last line bred half cross i kept, out of Ged (out of Dee) and Tess (out of Spike to a bitch out of Otter) was the image of his grandsire, he was fast and could kill his quarry, i thought he was gonna be real special but he lost an eye in his second real season and though i kept lamping him, he could only kill critters that turned left..! Because of this he ran over the edge of a deep sided drainage ditch out lamping and though i kept him on, sadly he was never the same. There were others in the line that were excellent also.

All the dogs i seen killed like no dogs i've seen since, all dogs mentioned were natural retrievers, all had fine temperaments with both dogs and people.

Some of the dogs mentioned are in my gallery, if anyone wants to look.

As i've said, back down this thread, there are lads who still keep this line tight. Getting harder now, but the blood still exists... I've never met anyone who owned a close bred dog from this line to ever say a bad word about em and almost all wished they still had their dog.

Now, and this is the crux...

By writing all this i'm in no way saying the Pye dog or any of his line are in any way any better than any other line of bull bloods... Back when i seen and owned mine, i didn't know of any other lines of bull greyhounds in the country, the world was a different place back then! So my view of them, us just that, my view. I only know of other lines from what has been written on forums like this over the years since and from a couple of lads i know and trust (they wouldn't keep shite!)

So single handed (fox) dogs are out there, i know that and this is what i know about Pye and his line... BUT my knowlage and views are from years ago, make of that what you will...

 

Good 

[mC HULL 12,162]

1 hour ago, joe ox said:

Good post bosun11 but I fear mCDULL will be on shortly to tell us just how usless half x are and how much better a coursing dog is  

Have a day and night with me joe and I’ll show you  

Unless teeth I think there a 3 rd rate lurcher 

there that good you’ve got one with collie in it  every man and his dog is putting coursing breds to them  

but I enjoyed bosuns write  up 

and Old Phils although I disagree with the whippeteer a good stud dog will throw killers even when put over shite

Edited August 18, 2021 by mC HULL

[mC HULL 12,162]

2 hours ago, OldPhil said:

 I've scant knowledge of Bull bred Lurchers,.. however,...I would endorse that advice regarding breeding..

I remember , many years ago when I kept 'Hard Blood' , non pedigree, race whippets..

My stock was used mostly for hunting, and the inevitable injuries sustained whilst coursing and roustabout rabbiting, ensured that we were forever in sick bay, and our attendance on Sunday morning race day, was pretty lack-lustre

Accordingly, I fancied that I could produce a world beater by putting my bitches to Top Class racing Studs.

Nowadays, things might possibly be different,..money seems to be the Master....but,.back then I was firmly put in my place...and it taught me a great lesson....

I had approached a well known Whippeteer and requested that he put his noted Stud Dog, across my bitches...

His answer was short and sweet..

"Phil,..your dogs are not in the same league as this animal...To be honest mate,..your dogs are only second rate, and by putting poor runners to this jukel, you will achieve nothing...Sorry, you cannot use him..."

Now, at the time, I was too dumb to understand this attitude,..but after a lifetime spent with running dogs, I kinda agree with the concept of putting the best you have, to the best you can find,..and then,..praying to feck that it all works out.

Obviously, this is all pure conjecture on my part,...my time has passed and my standards are now, extremely,..lowly

But, for them as cares,....I do believe the method certainly ups the odds,...no guarantees,..but, it ups the odds..

All the best, Brothers, and stay safe...regards, OldPhil

Looks pristine

[joe ox 2,574]

37 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

Have a day and night with me joe and I’ll show you  

Unless teeth I think there a 3 rd rate lurcher 

there that good you’ve got one with collie in it  every man and his dog is putting coursing breds to them  

but I enjoyed bosuns write  up 

and Old Phils although I disagree with the whippeteer a good stud dog will throw killers even when put over shite

Yep mcdull he has loads of collie in, you just keep thinking you know everything its quite amusing 

 

[zigzag dan 784]

Its a myth that a proven stud dog will consistently throw class pups out of an average bitch, yes, you will get the odd one, but overall you will get more wastage. 

A multiple Derby winning greyhound trainer once told me that the bitch was more important than the stud and when you study the data, especially in greyhounds he is right, no guarantee with any breeding but you can move the odds in your favour a little. 

Its no coincidence that some, and there's not many of them, men, breed champions when they keep dogs, horses, canaries, pigeons etc, because they consistently use the best available. 

[Greb147 6,809]

17 minutes ago, zigzag dan said:

Its a myth that a proven stud dog will consistently throw class pups out of an average bitch, yes, you will get the odd one, but overall you will get more wastage. 

A multiple Derby winning greyhound trainer once told me that the bitch was more important than the stud and when you study the data, especially in greyhounds he is right, no guarantee with any breeding but you can move the odds in your favour a little. 

Its no coincidence that some, and there's not many of them, men, breed champions when they keep dogs, horses, canaries, pigeons etc, because they consistently use the best available. 

You have to think like this, breeds were created to excel in their fields by breeding the best dogs to the best bitches at their craft.

It's the whole principle of selection, not saying that you can't find a diamond when breeding to sub standard performers but it's all about stacking the deck in your favour.

Regarding Pye though, I'm not knocking the dog when I said it's ten a penny. My point is I doubt it was doing anything exceptional, many bull crosses were single handed dogs.

It's just not everybody feels the need to put their handy dogs up for public stud and to make a name for them.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Greb147