small ratting breeds

[Aussie Whip 4,098]

17 minutes ago, huckelberry said:

but van hamelen was more of a biter than a shaker and she just seemed to want to be the frirst to nail the rats

I wouldn't expect any dog to have much drive when very young and they may end up better ratters than the early starters. These Russells I had were very closely bred as fox dogs for a lot of generations and would try and get into any hole or small space as soon as they could walk. They also had a hatred for vermin very young but I don't know if they would be better than the average terrier as adults. As they got bigger they would crunch rats rather than shake them, they also had little interest in rabbits, I think because the prey had no fight to it.

[huckelberry 114]

59 minutes ago, socks said:

I’ve no doubt the pup I bred and kept here now would have a crack at a rat as he is a Bally fukcer but there’s a massive difference between a pup of normal size having a go and a pup that is small enough to fit under a pallet killing rats. 

 i still got interest in a dog ful grown small enough to crawl under a pallet though. i still don't know for sure if it will work well i just think it might.  i also got ferrets in different sizes for a reason.  and i have been in many rat hunting situations when i would have  prefered a smaller dog over a big ferret.  for me the dog does not need to kill the rat under the pallet and like with using ferrets i don't think it would happen often. but a smaller dog is more easy to control and direct into the right direction than a ferret.  and the dogs surronding the pallets will catch way more rats than the animals under the pallets. but without any rat hunting animals under the pallets  that can not be lifted. not much would be caught. they all got their place and function in our tactical war against the rats.

 

by the way i don't understand what you are trying to tell about the differnce between pup normal size and pup mini size. can you explain that better? might be language differnce my enlish is not bad but wont be as good as from an englishman 

[Aussie Whip 4,098]

A mate had a very small Russell from workers only about 3 1/2kgs, not runty at all which would suit your job pretty good. Maybe look for a very small denning Russell that is too small for it's intended job.

[socks 32,253]

39 minutes ago, huckelberry said:

 i still got interest in a dog ful grown small enough to crawl under a pallet though. i still don't know for sure if it will work well i just think it might.  i also got ferrets in different sizes for a reason.  and i have been in many rat hunting situations when i would have  prefered a smaller dog over a big ferret.  for me the dog does not need to kill the rat under the pallet and like with using ferrets i don't think it would happen often. but a smaller dog is more easy to control and direct into the right direction than a ferret.  and the dogs surronding the pallets will catch way more rats than the animals under the pallets. but without any rat hunting animals under the pallets  that can not be lifted. not much would be caught. they all got their place and function in our tactical war against the rats.

 

by the way i don't understand what you are trying to tell about the differnce between pup normal size and pup mini size. can you explain that better? might be language differnce my enlish is not bad but wont be as good as from an englishman 

Firstly …. How dare you. I am a Welshman not an Engli ……. I can’t bring myself to say it. 
what I mean is for a pup to be small enough at 9-12 weeks of age to run around under a pallet it would be way to small and weak to kill rats. 

[OldPhil 5,748]

On 02/07/2021 at 09:46, huckelberry said:

 i still got interest in a dog ful grown small enough to crawl under a pallet though. i still don't know for sure if it will work well i just think it might.  i also got ferrets in different sizes for a reason.  and i have been in many rat hunting situations when i would have  prefered a smaller dog over a big ferret.  for me the dog does not need to kill the rat under the pallet and like with using ferrets i don't think it would happen often. but a smaller dog is more easy to control and direct into the right direction than a ferret.  and the dogs surronding the pallets will catch way more rats than the animals under the pallets. but without any rat hunting animals under the pallets  that can not be lifted. not much would be caught. they all got their place and function in our tactical war against the rats.

 

by the way i don't understand what you are trying to tell about the differnce between pup normal size and pup mini size. can you explain that better? might be language differnce my enlish is not bad but wont be as good as from an englishman 

Hi Huckleberry,...I am pleased to hear that you are enjoying your rat hunting forays

I used to do a lot of ratting with terriers, collies, whippets, etc , indeed, at one time in my life, I would far rather hunt rats than rabbits

Mercifully I grew out of it, and followed a different path.. 

Your idea of trying to find, a tiny terrier seems sensible for the task that you might need it for,..however, unless your rat hunting is exclusively amongst piles of pallets or under wooden flooring, you might find that purchasing a tweenie tyke, you could end up carrying a passenger in your pack 

Personally, I am not a fan of Mini Ferrets or ultra tiny terriers..of course you can get exceptions and I've seen several foxes, bolted lovely into nets or to the waiting guns, by a really small Russell...

However, when using such a diminutive tyke we were always really quiet when entering her to an earth...

It was pointless forcing a large fox to have a ruck with a tiny terrier , it nearly always ended badly..

I still think a Big ferret is a far better option for moving rodents from inaccessible voids, but if you want to go down that route then you must follow your heart and continue your search...

Right, all the best, and stay safe,..regards OldPhil

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by OldPhil

[Countryman62 541]

6 hours ago, huckelberry said:

 

when i wanted to buy my newest dog van hamelen i asked the breeder(who usess them on fox and badger most of the times) if there would be any pups that would work well on rats. he told me that is simple bring along a live rat and and you can see what pup has the drive for it.  when i got to the breeder i first wanted to see the pups(he had 2 nests at that time. and i allready saw a few smaller pups in the nest that got my interest. we when for a walk with the dog and i made up my mind.. that one was the pup i wanted to take home. but then i thought about the live rat i still had with me. well i didn't want to take it home alive  again anyway. so i took the cage out and the pup i choose did not have any interest in the big rat in that cage. so i strated to doubt my choice. i asked the breeder to get the other pups of the nest. and some of the pups showed a lot more interest in the rat. but not a smaller sized bitch pup that had my interest. so we got those pups away and brought the pups from the other nest to the rat and one small bitch pup didn't think twice and went crazy on the rat straight away.  and that pup is now my dog van hamelen. the big full grown rat in the cage she had plenty of drive and will to try to nail that one. but did i want to take the chance with an 8,5 weeks old pup? well no i had 2 full grown dogs with me and she could watch them how it had to be done. she was howling grunting barking like crazy while they did. she wanted to enter the game. but me and the other dogs didnt let her. until a few days later we had a few young rats in a cage. i had send those few days playing with the pups let her chase and bite dead rats on a string. had a small fishing rod style hazel twig with a dried peace of brow rat skin to it to play with her and she seemed to do so well. that when i showed her the cage and saw how much she wanted to take on those 2 small rats that she was up to it. and it seemed that she was. she went with us on a daily basis. i had a lot of work as a rat hunter at that time and i also wanted to spend as much time with the pup as possible. my other 2 dogs where traveling along in my sidecar as always. and the small pup van hamelen went into the sleve of my motorbike jacket.  when we stoped at a rat hunting job and she picked up the exitement of my other dogs  here nose came out of my jacket and she wanted out to help us. so i let her when she got tired (this seemed to happen only when there wasn't many rats) she got back into my jacket .  the first next time she killed rat was a nest of hailess baby rats i saw one of my dogs digging and killing the first baby and took this hunting spot over together with the pup. together we digged to them and i let her kill  the you rats whille my other 2 dogs where barking and groweling from frustration because i didn't let them join in. but for van hamelen this was only an exta motivation. from that time on i don't remenber exactly what rat she killed at wat time and were. but for a pup 2 experienced full grown dogs are not an even match so she had not much chance of killing rats. but when i saw that it wasnt'a big rat and she could handle the fight i would protect her from the other dogs so that she could have her own private rat hunt. and when it was a bigger rat that might be to hard for her me and the other dog would jump in straight away to take over the fight.  after i had van hamelen just a week or 2/3 one of my dogs died suddenly and we stll had loads of ratting work.  and at that time she did start to catch a lot more and also bigger rats and because we had one dog less. she also had more private time with those because we where not always close by enough to jump in straight away.  she was hard for herself and the only thing that seemed to matter to her was killing the rats getting a rat bite in here nose seemed to happen way to much and i hoped that she would becaume more carefull for myself and learn from ravi my older dog who is a crazy shaker and does not get bitten much by rats because of her crazy shaking tornado.  but van hamelen was more of a biter than a shaker and she just seemed to want to be the frirst to nail the rats and they just should not escape so bite and hold and it it hangs in my nose bite more and deeper and not let go and hope that my boss or ravi comes to help me get those teeth out of my nose soon. she is now about 1,5/2 years of age and she starts to shake a bit more but still not as much as ravi. well at least she knows how to handle the rats better now she doesn't get bitten that much nowadays. to me every bite to her nose is one to much. but for her only the choorhexidrine that i put on her nose seems to be to much. 

Best litter of Terrier pups I ever saw was a litter of Jack Russells bred by an honest, genuine digging man in South Wales, he said to me “come and have a look at these” we went into his backyard and he shown me this litter of six week old pups then he got this small round cage out with a rat in it, he put the cage on the floor and lifted a pup out from the litter, as soon as he put the pup on the floor it flew at cage, biting and shaking the cage for all it’s worth, this pup was intent on getting to this rat and killing it, the man lifted the pup up after a few seconds and did the same with the entire litter, i have never seen a litter from that day to this so keen and determined to engage with its quarry at that age, I had to ask “any going spare P” he just laughed and told me they all had homes before they were born, and seeing the parents do their work underground like I did I was not in the least bit surprised, atb

[Elchapo 3,166]

21 hours ago, W. Katchum said:

They been on here before ,I know the lad who posted about them, he still on here now an again so I’ll let him answer if he see’s this, think they are his good mates dogs, an aye they get used instead of ferrets if it’s same ones but deffo from same area

They will be the same ones , my mate who used come on here who bred the bull x cocker just used the dog over his paterdale bitch , be interesting to see how they turn out , 

[huckelberry 114]

17 hours ago, OldPhil said:

Hi Huckleberry,...I am pleased to hear that you are enjoying your rat hunting forays

I used to do a lot of ratting with terriers, collies, whippets, etc , indeed, at one time in my life, I would far rather hunt rats than rabbits

Mercifully I grew out of it, and followed a different path.. 

Your idea of trying to find, a tiny terrier seems sensible for the task that you might need it for,..however, unless your rat hunting is exclusively amongst piles of pallets or under wooden flooring, you might find that purchasing a tweenie tyke, you could end up carrying a passenger in your pack 

Personally, I am not a fan of Mini Ferrets or ultra tiny terriers..of course you can get exceptions and I've seen several foxes, bolted lovely into nets or to the waiting guns, by a really small Russell...

However, when using such a diminutive tyke we were always really quiet when entering her to an earth...

It was pointless forcing a large fox to have a ruck with a tiny terrier , it nearly always ended badly..

I still think a Big ferret is a far better option for moving rodents from inaccessible voids, but if you want to go down that route then you must follow your heart and continue your search...

Right, all the best, and stay safe,..regards OldPhil

i understand your point about using a tiny terrier against a big fox,  and the compairison using a tiny ferret against a big rat verry well. and it does hold its ground for sure. but even than what about small foxes? and what about small rats? and what if they have their hide our with very tiny pass through holes that can not be dug out by the terrier or the ferret? did you never had that happen to you that your whole team of hunting animals was sure that there was something hiding somewhere but it was just impossible to force it from their hiding.  to me my job is not to catch as many rats as possible(althoug we love it when it happens) but to take the rat at a certain location. but all of them even if it is just one. i dont want to leave just one tiny rat at a client because it might just stay there and invite new rats to the place and start new families. so if we know where it is hiding we will do all in our possebilety to kill it or to make it move to kill it. we have completely emptied fire wood stacks for just a single rat we dug through so many ground and roots and moved so many stones while digging, we have used water to flood places. we used leaf blowers smokers sticked anti drain clog spirals into their hidings and so on and so on. and many times with succes. but even than. many is just not enough there are still times when nothing gets the rat moving. or the tiny rat had just managed to get from the just completely umptied fire wood shed into the new fire wood pile. and you know that your day is running short on daylight and the rat knows it is better of in that wood pile with one to big for him ferret that out there in the open with you and your dogs.   at times like that for me it is time to bring in the specal forces of our ratting team. normaly i always take 3 carriers with all 3 ferrets in them so 9 ferrets in total one box with the bigger stronger hob ferrets with loads of experience and skillls(because they are the first ferrets that i use)  but olso more weight and power to finish the job. but they are in many cases just to big to finish the job bause they are not able to reach through all the narrow rat pass throughs especialy when roots wood or stone pass troughs are involved. then i move to my second ferret carrier the middle weight ferrets. when i started out these where jills but now because my working ferret line is mixed with micro blood also this carrier consists mostly and for the biggest time of the year of hobs, because they don't need to become pregnant. these middel weight class ferrets are about the size of a normal/rather small jill and in most cases they can reach through all of the tiny rat pass throughs. but normal and alomst allways is still not always. so that is why there is the 3th carrier box with she special forces the feather weights. the tinies the micro"s. from my working line they are still females but i hope to also get some hobs into this tiny special forces team for all year round hunting in the future.  of course these tiny ferrets will not be set up against rat more than twice their weight as the first choise the chissel theet of a big rat compaired to the tiny head of such a small ferret....  i know the ferret can win. but i also know the rat might get a chance to bite a ferret.  and given me a choice i ratter see the biggest heads of my team against the biggest team of the ratting squad.  just beacause the wounds that might get inflicted by those teeth in size compairison are way less severe for a bigger head.  but when we can be quite sure that those bigger rats with the long teeth are not there anymore because both the heay and the middel weight class ferrets have allready done their job. and the rats underground allready know that the ferrets mean buisness and will not fall for theatening and/or atacking  they will move when they smell hear and or see  the small micro ferret entering through their most narrow squeeze  throug pass. and if these smaller rat can they wiil take their chances out in the open. where my dogs wating on their to me apointed places are waiting and where long nets and bolt traps are placed to block the rats escape routes. and hopefully we manage to catch that  last remaining small squeeze through  rat that last rat that knows the place 

Edited July 3, 2021 by huckelberry

[huckelberry 114]

On 01/07/2021 at 08:27, Bosun11 said:

9 weeks and ratting under pallets....

No dog has ever been ruined by late entering but plenty have been ruined by starting them too early...

I do know of a bloke who has mini bushing dogs, tiny little yorkie looking things. No idea what they are like on rats but they can run through an earth like its the Mersey Tunnel. Wouldn't know if they could fit under pallets either, that job would best suit a big hob ferret imo.

If its tiny ratters you want, breed your own. It's a risk but there are loads of toy breeds you could use. You'd just have to find one with attitude.

Funny though, there are some serious lads who rat on this site and on the ratting FB sites i'm on. Lads that take huge numbers every year. None of them have ever needed mini anything to the job and standard sized mutts have done just fine.

My guess is that your ego wants a tiny dog. Let it squeeze under pallets because your too lazy to move them yourself. You'd buzz off a mini dog all marked up with rat bites and risking it in places others wouldn't put a dog in. Same with your post wanting micro ferrets, when a good standard jill works just fine on the rats. You just want your ego massaged, showing off your mini's...

Think you need to re-evaluate what your doing in this game...

what im doin in the game is not just catch huge numbers of rats(although i also like huge numbers of  caught rats) what im trying to do is to try to kill the last remaining rat and to get a happy rat free client. and when both my body the bodies of my other team players have all been working their lazy asses of and the all just can't destroy the ratting hide out and can not reach them. it might come in handy to have some special tiny forces at hand that can reach them.  by the way wanted to give a tumbs up for the firts part of your reply. but because of the last 5 lines (exept fot that final line i can live with that one ) of your reply full of assumptions....  well i just hope that i don't feel that much need to put the tumbs up after that. and i hope that you re evaluate what you just did with that. 

[huckelberry 114]

and then back to the mean part. the reason why i started out this thread. a small ratting dog breed. differnt country might have just had differnt ways of dealing with thing. and for some reason in Česko something diffent than in england happend to their ratting dog and the Prazsky Krysarik a small ratting breed was born. and in germany the miniature pincher was born for som reason these countries did seem to see so much need for a small ratting dog that they started breeding a small ratting dog.   some how they did breed them once upon a time and now at least i can't find much about it, they seem to not be used much for ratting nowadays. out here people have used rat poison as the norm for decades to kill  the rats. and now they are looking for alternatieve ways of killing rats to me it is of interest to also dive into the history of other countries and see the solutions they came up with. and hope that they can be of use for my rat hunting work. 

[socks 32,253]

17 hours ago, Countryman62 said:

Best litter of Terrier pups I ever saw was a litter of Jack Russells bred by an honest, genuine digging man in South Wales, he said to me “come and have a look at these” we went into his backyard and he shown me this litter of six week old pups then he got this small round cage out with a rat in it, he put the cage on the floor and lifted a pup out from the litter, as soon as he put the pup on the floor it flew at cage, biting and shaking the cage for all it’s worth, this pup was intent on getting to this rat and killing it, the man lifted the pup up after a few seconds and did the same with the entire litter, i have never seen a litter from that day to this so keen and determined to engage with its quarry at that age, I had to ask “any going spare P” he just laughed and told me they all had homes before they were born, and seeing the parents do their work underground like I did I was not in the least bit surprised, atb

Was that mal T 

[OldPhil 5,748]

On 03/07/2021 at 05:15, huckelberry said:

i understand your point about using a tiny terrier against a big fox,  and the compairison using a tiny ferret against a big rat verry well. and it does hold its ground for sure. but even than what about small foxes? and what about small rats? and what if they have their hide our with very tiny pass through holes that can not be dug out by the terrier or the ferret? did you never had that happen to you that your whole team of hunting animals was sure that there was something hiding somewhere but it was just impossible to force it from their hiding.  to me my job is not to catch as many rats as possible(althoug we love it when it happens) but to take the rat at a certain location. but all of them even if it is just one. i dont want to leave just one tiny rat at a client because it might just stay there and invite new rats to the place and start new families. so if we know where it is hiding we will do all in our possebilety to kill it or to make it move to kill it. we have completely emptied fire wood stacks for just a single rat we dug through so many ground and roots and moved so many stones while digging, we have used water to flood places. we used leaf blowers smokers sticked anti drain clog spirals into their hidings and so on and so on. and many times with succes. but even than. many is just not enough there are still times when nothing gets the rat moving. or the tiny rat had just managed to get from the just completely umptied fire wood shed into the new fire wood pile. and you know that your day is running short on daylight and the rat knows it is better of in that wood pile with one to big for him ferret that out there in the open with you and your dogs.   at times like that for me it is time to bring in the specal forces of our ratting team. normaly i always take 3 carriers with all 3 ferrets in them so 9 ferrets in total one box with the bigger stronger hob ferrets with loads of experience and skillls(because they are the first ferrets that i use)  but olso more weight and power to finish the job. but they are in many cases just to big to finish the job bause they are not able to reach through all the narrow rat pass throughs especialy when roots wood or stone pass troughs are involved. then i move to my second ferret carrier the middle weight ferrets. when i started out these where jills but now because my working ferret line is mixed with micro blood also this carrier consists mostly and for the biggest time of the year of hobs, because they don't need to become pregnant. these middel weight class ferrets are about the size of a normal/rather small jill and in most cases they can reach through all of the tiny rat pass throughs. but normal and alomst allways is still not always. so that is why there is the 3th carrier box with she special forces the feather weights. the tinies the micro"s. from my working line they are still females but i hope to also get some hobs into this tiny special forces team for all year round hunting in the future.  of course these tiny ferrets will not be set up against rat more than twice their weight as the first choise the chissel theet of a big rat compaired to the tiny head of such a small ferret....  i know the ferret can win. but i also know the rat might get a chance to bite a ferret.  and given me a choice i ratter see the biggest heads of my team against the biggest team of the ratting squad.  just beacause the wounds that might get inflicted by those teeth in size compairison are way less severe for a bigger head.  but when we can be quite sure that those bigger rats with the long teeth are not there anymore because both the heay and the middel weight class ferrets have allready done their job. and the rats underground allready know that the ferrets mean buisness and will not fall for theatening and/or atacking  they will move when they smell hear and or see  the small micro ferret entering through their most narrow squeeze  throug pass. and if these smaller rat can they wiil take their chances out in the open. where my dogs wating on their to me apointed places are waiting and where long nets and bolt traps are placed to block the rats escape routes. and hopefully we manage to catch that  last remaining small squeeze through  rat that last rat that knows the place 

Hi,..well, you are obviously passionate about your pastime, and I applaud you for that..(I love a man who is serious about his hunting, I cannot be doing with fellows who are simply playing at the game..

They hold no interest for me)

Words and meanings frequently get lost in translation, and this occurs even when men are talking the same language I apologise if my previous post was not as concise as it might have been.

Like a lot of lads, I've been at the death of thousands of rats, especially when the big Barn Poultry sheds and Battery Chicken farms are being cleaned out...The rodents have often been allowed to eat themselves fat on the spillage from the feedstuffs...Unless a man has been down and dirty, and well amongst a stampede of rodents, all making for the exit, then he ain't fecking lived 

Its an amazing feeling to have them hitting you, right left and centre and even climbing up and over you....Its great fun though

Yeah, I kinda get your words regarding varying teams of ferrets , all with specialised tasks in their toolbox,..and it makes good sense to be over gunned, as opposed to being a bit short on firepower...(This is even more so when ferreting rabbits on a week long basis)..

In mentioning the mass destruction of rodents with dogs, ferrets, smokers, etc,..I would have to tell you that my main work for the last thirty years has been as a Rural Pest Controller....

For me, that solitary, one and only rat in a cottage roof or farm shop, really is far more important than killing a big bag of longtails on a farm, or amidst a local council Rubbish Tip.

 Often that single rat is far harder to eradicate than a whole group of the feckers....

It is time consuming and frequently costly for the client..

The main thing I have found when trying to control any pest species is to be,....adaptable..

 I wish you well in your continued search, for that right tool for the job

 Stay safe now, and be lucky..

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by OldPhil

[forest of dean redneck 11,598]

Tried searching for pic of the Russell x chihuahua no joy anyone know where ones to ?

[EDDIE B 3,166]

Wasn't there a story in The Fell Terrier book, where a well known terrier man dropped a pup into a barrel with a rat in it. The pup got a nice doing from the rat and legged it, with tail between its legs. Turned out to be a very good earth dog, but was never keen on rats after that incident as a pup.

[Countryman62 541]

3 hours ago, socks said:

Was that mal T 

No it wasn’t him, I know who he is though I’ve never met him