Variation

[goldfinger 135]

A few weeks ago I put in a centerfire variation  for a 243 I already had 22.250 on my ticket but decided to hold back and find some land with deer on that the farmer wanted controlling hoping to be able to get a 243 that covered me for everything and only buy one rifle,the land was inspected and passed in part for the caliber, the Fao phoned telling that they were refusing the variation on the grounds only that  I had no experience of shooting deer, this was there only reason,they told me to re-apply after I had  some stalking experience, is this a legal requirement and can they insist on this before granting.previously I had told them that I had done a hell of alot research on this subject and was a very confident of humanely dispatching a deer, also that I had a lot of years in the army shooting similar and bigger calibres and new with confidence how centerfire rounds behave,I felt very insulted that they though I needed this experience,all my life I have been involved in some sort of vermin control and believe me that's a lot of years.

[Sausagedog 7,381]

Its hog wash. Your legal requirements are to have permission, buy, lease or otherwise obtain the rights to shoot deer and thus need a rifle of legal calibre in order to meet all legal requirements.

You worded it wrong somewhere along the way or said to much!

[walshie 2,804]

That's nonsense. Not sure how you can get stalking experience without a gun to shoot them with. They really do make it up as they go along. Are you a member of a shooting organisation? 

[goldfinger 135]

Yes BASC

[Stavross 15,361]

That’s not right, .243 is not just a deer round although deer legal, a long time ago when I went for my first centrefire for foxing I was advised by firearms to go for .243 because it’s deer legal, I said I don’t shoot deer, he said you might want to in the future. If the land has been cleared for that calibre telling you you need to get experience is not a good enough reason, they don’t know if you will be going out with someone who will show you what to do and they say you need experience, so could you reapply and say “ my mate took me out and now I have experience “ 

[goldfinger 135]

31 minutes ago, Stavross said:

That’s not right, .243 is not just a deer round although deer legal, a long time ago when I went for my first centrefire for foxing I was advised by firearms to go for .243 because it’s deer legal, I said I don’t shoot deer, he said you might want to in the future. If the land has been cleared for that calibre telling you you need to get experience is not a good enough reason, they don’t know if you will be going out with someone who will show you what to do and they say you need experience, so could you reapply and say “ my mate took me out and now I have experience “ 

11 hours ago, walshie said:

That's nonsense. Not sure how you can get stalking experience without a gun to shoot them with. They really do make it up as they go along. Are you a member of a shooting organisation? 

I'm going talk to BASC today.

 

 

 

[Stavross 15,361]

I hope they sort it out for you as this is the type of thing BASC was set up for, not the nonsense they involve themselves in now

[Meece 1,957]

10 hours ago, goldfinger said:

I'm going talk to BASC today.

 

 

 

I have no Faith in the ability of basic to do anything other that to tell you to wait a year and not rock the boat. ! Oh, and to try to get you to buy some raffle tickets.

Edit..  I forgot  You will likely be told that they recommend that you enrol on a dsc course ....  run by , ... you guessed it basic or one of their cronies.  ........  "This is a deer",,,  " that's a deer"???? "Yes, that's a f***ing deer".'*

Edited October 16, 2020 by Meece

[Meece 1,957]

18 hours ago, Sausagedog said:

Its hog wash. Your legal requirements are to have permission, buy, lease or otherwise obtain the rights to shoot deer and thus need a rifle of legal calibre in order to meet all legal requirements.

You worded it wrong somewhere along the way or said to much!

This is about right.  They just  make it up as they go along and now hide behind covid. You cant ring them up, you can't  go there and my feo dosn't even work on Friday. And the rest of the time you have to leave a voice message and hope. Pretty piss poor service 

[Meece 1,957]

8 hours ago, goldfinger said:

I'm going talk to BASC today.

 

 

 

And from this experiment we find  that.  .????

[shovel leaner 7,650]

I have a feeling that you could be banging your head against a brick wall . My advice would be to jump through their hoops , don’t rock the boat , as much as it goes against the grain . Sign up for a DSC course . I’ve known people who have been on them and are glad they did.  Try to go into it with an open mind and not “ I’ve got to do this bloody course , hurry up and let it be over “. You never know , you might learn something. Alternatively, shoot the deer with the 22-250 and don’t tell the deer

[Dervburner 2,549]

23 minutes ago, shovel leaner said:

I have a feeling that you could be banging your head against a brick wall . My advice would be to jump through their hoops , don’t rock the boat , as much as it goes against the grain . Sign up for a DSC course . I’ve known people who have been on them and are glad they did.  Try to go into it with an open mind and not “ I’ve got to do this bloody course , hurry up and let it be over “. You never know , you might learn something. Alternatively, shoot the deer with the 22-250 and don’t tell the deer

Good advice, I know someone who took DSC and then was granted 30-06 with no previous experience in deer stalking

[Meece 1,957]

It's pragmatic but overall should we be appeasing these random demands and hoops? When we've agreed to every whim what then.? You can't have a ticket if you don't wear tweeds.? You don't have weetabix for breakfast.? Or you have to wear blue Doc Martin's .? Stiĺl when the orgs are promoting courses they run for cash what else have we to look forward to.

[shovel leaner 7,650]

1 minute ago, Meece said:

It's pragmatic but overall should we be appeasing these random demands and hoops? When we've agreed to every whim what then.? You can't have a ticket if you don't wear tweeds.? You don't have weetabix for breakfast.? Or you have to wear blue Doc Martin's .? Stiĺl when the orgs are promoting courses they run for cash what else have we to look forward to.

Can’t disagree with any of that , but a piece of paper talks and BS walks to the police . I suppose it shows that you have had some training, I think as long as we can “self regulate “ then we won’t have to adopt compulsory training like our European neighbors.

[goldfinger 135]

4 hours ago, Meece said:

And from this experiment we find  that.  .????

BASC's reply

Ok its probably because you haven’t bought the centrefire yet that they won’t grant the .243

 

Experience is outlined in the Home Office guide as follows, albeit forces are not content with allowing rimfire experience to move on to new calibres.

 

The only way you will move froward on this is to get someone to lend you a rifle of largest calibre possible under their supervision and get them to vouch for you that you can choose safe backstops.

 

They cannot make you go and get deer experience, this is not required.

 

HO guidance says as follows;

 

13.26 It is desirable that new applicants should have some previous experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles. Experience is neither cartridge nor ammunition type exclusive. It may include the shooting of any quarry species. The aspect that police are looking to be satisfied about is the competency of the applicant to take a safe shot every time. The shooting of any quarry requires a safe backstop for the shot, and such experience is transferable between quarry species.