Webley & Scott LTD Shotgun ID

[boz142 0]

a double barrel side x side 12GA. shotgun,marked Webley & Scott Ltd and Birmingham on top of barrels. Equiped with double triggers,automatic safety,and standard extractors. Receiver is brite and blued with a scroll type engraving which includes Webley & Scott Ltd markings. Barrels are approx. 28" lg.,has concave rib with bead sight,stamped for 2 3/4" chambers, has black powder proof and nitro proofs and a London V view mark serial number 218 under the barrels.

 

links to the pics:

 

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/Chief-MPD/shotgun.jpg

 

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/Chi...PD/shotgun4.jpg

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/Chi...PD/shotgun6.jpg

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/Chi...D/shotgun10.jpg

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/Chi...PD/shotgun7.jpg

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/Chi...PD/shotgun8.jpg

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/Chi...PD/shotgun9.jpg

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/Chi...PD/shotgun1.jpg

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/Chi...PD/shotgun3.jpg

[boz142 0]

Does anybody have information on this ?

Edited January 8, 2008 by boz142

[Guest Macnas]

I'll see what I can find out.

[Guest john5]

Does anybody have information on this ?

are you wanting to sell it ?

[boz142 0]

Just bought it from an antique shop here in Ohio, guy didn't know anything about guns, i've been looking for information, I know that the were WC Scott in the early 1800's but company changed about 1897 to Webley Scott Ltd. Doesn't appear to been fired at all so until I can determine more hate to even fire the gun.

[Guest Macnas]

Without a good look at the proofmarks its hard to tel, but it doesn't look like a model 700 unless it was one of the very early manufactured.

 

It's been proofed in London, as opposed to birmingham where most Scott guns were proofed.

Webley & Scott did have a london factory for a while but that was well before 1920, the gun seems in very good condition, too good for a gun of that age really. (I know there are exceptions).

 

If you contact Richard Gallyon of Gallyon gunmakers, (uk code + 01953 850215) you may find out more, as they hold the Webley & Scott records.

[boz142 0]

I've sent some pics to Richard Gallyon and awaiting his reply, I had spoken to him before buying the gun he had records from 1912 but thought since the serial number was 218 it had to be older.

That has got me thinking about the age also, it's very nice shape, do they put black powder proof marks on guns that are newer, this has both BP and NP Proof marks and yes the V view mark indicates London, I didn't know that also meant that was where the gun was proofed, could it been made in Birmingham where the barrel marks came from and BP proofed, then sent back to London sometime later for NP Proof ?

[clay man 0]

http://www.webley.co.uk/webley_scott/

www.webley.co.uk/webley_scott - Welcome to Webley & Scott hear the web site

[Guest Macnas]

Anything is possible I guess, but the action flats are usually stamped by the proof house at the same time as the barrel flats, so one would assume.

 

If the Scott numbers are anything to go by, 218 would put it between 1865 and 1868, which obviously doesn't make sense.

 

After squinting at the proff marks, I know this much:

The serial number doesn't make any sense.

The nitro proof is from the birmingham proof house, the view mark is from the london house. The combination I don't understand, but there it is.

The London view mark and the chamber length stamp puts the gun somewhere between 1925 and 1954.

There are other stamps that I can't make out, & the definitive proof mark is indistinct.

 

The gun has some features that don't seem to be consistant with a Scott gun:

The chequering, it looks like that done in belgium.

The engraving, also looks continental ( I may be totally wrong, but thats my impression)

The lettering, on the side of the action it seems to be poorly applied and is not to the usual standard of a Scott gun.

 

Beyond that, I know no more.

[boz142 0]

Let me get some better pics and put on here and I too am wondering about a fake but it would seem to be a very nice piece of wood, engraving is very fine work, the proof marks and view marks don't make sense I agree, serial numbers are real strange, what other pics can I provide to help you. Why spend alot of money to fake this ?

[Guest Macnas]

It's only a notion I have is all Boz, I could well be completely wrong.

 

As for the why, well many guns from the continent, Belgian particularly, didn't have a good name in England and were consequently hard to sell. This was sometimes justified but more times not, as we all know some of the very finest guns are made in Belgium.

 

Sometimes, in order to make sure of a sale some guns were stamped with the name of established english manufacturers. So essentially, there isn't a whole lot of money inviloved, just a bit of lettering/stamping.

 

Another possibility is that this gun was sold by Webley and Scott, but made elsewhere. I have seen some old catalogues where Scott's were marketing belgian guns under their own brand name. It could be that your gun is one of those.

In any case, it look a nice gun with a very nice bit of stick.

[boz142 0]

Received reply from Richard Gallyon:

 

From photo's I am sorry that the number of your gun has been misprinted to

you. The number is238.

The gun was made about 1889/1885. It is not an exhibition grade but an old

English engraved gun originally made for black powder and has been reproofed

2 3/4. It could have been restocked in its life as nearly all Webley &

Scott guns have silver ovials fitted for initials. Sorry but cannot help

any more on this.

 

Richard Gallyon

 

The mystery continues....