Coronavirus

[Lenmcharristar 9,724]

30 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

You're preaching to the converted there mate im still wrestling with the anti white logic that whites ruled the world,enslaved and conquered every other race,stole other races land and held all non whites down and repressed them.....yet whites ability to do all this had nothing to do with white superiority !

Ever listen to the iron maiden song run for the hills? Listen to the words 

[Lenmcharristar 9,724]

25 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

Lets be straight farming was never exactly their forte.....they couldnt even figure out the wheel for crying out loud !

Yep the oldest race on earth and the most bone idol

[gnasher16 30,025]

1 hour ago, Lenmcharristar said:

Yep the oldest race on earth and the most bone idol

Exactly,imagine having more shoreline than any other continent on the planet,living there for tens of thousands of years without discovering the concept of the sailing vessel.

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by gnasher16

[ChrisJones 7,975]

13 hours ago, Francie said:

Sorry Chris we're all entitled to our opinions, but cmon man, youve said above that your getting the vaccine incase your asymptomatic, yes? 

An you don't want to pass it on to vulnerable people?

Partly yes. If of course a successful vaccine is produced and it's gone through all the checks and balances.

No, I don't want it.

No, I don't want to pass it on.

13 hours ago, Francie said:

So are you saying if you get a vaccine, you can't catch the virus?

I'm saying no such thing. I've never made that claim and to the contrary I've said it will probably mutate in a similar way to influenza requiring multiple jabs over time. Recent articles posted online suggest that could be the case but we've been talking about the probability not the definitive.

As neither of us are medical professionals we're attempting to have a discussion about it in the General Talk section of a discussion forum.

13 hours ago, Francie said:

Load of shit mate sorry, few folk on here like Joe an yourself have that smug arrogance looking down your nose at folk out question vaccines. 

Sorry if it comes across that way, that's not the intention at all. I would say that it is indeed smug and arrogant that we're not allowed to question some of the complete horseshit that's been spouted on this thread regarding 5G and Bill Gates. Have you changed any of your stance on those points with your extensive internet research?You aren't the only one that's allowed to question the narrative, mate. You certainly don't have an unquestionable monopoly on research.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

13 hours ago, Francie said:

What's the sense in getting the vaccine, when it won't stop the reasons your getting it for?

What vaccine? I wasn't aware they'd even finalized one yet, for C19? How do you know it won't work? Are you psychic or have you already made up your mind? Do you have any evidence that it won't work?

13 hours ago, Francie said:

An trying to guilt trip people into getting the vaccine does not put you on the moral high ground bud

Guilt trip is an interesting phrasing! Do you feel guilty about your stance, or something? I'll make some statements now. Please feel free to dispute any or all of them and correct me if I'm wrong.

• We've been exposed to this virus for a very short period of time.
• We know a little more as the time passes but it's extremely contagious and the vast majority of cases show no more than mild symptoms.
• We have no cure.
• We are only now trialing drugs that are thought to help recovery.
• We are woefully behind in our testing obligations.
• Most cases are thought to be asymptomatic.
• Asymptomatic carriers are able to potentially infect anyone they come into contact with and if they don't know they're carrying it could potentially pass this virus to an unlimited amount of people.
• The virus is disproportionately effecting the elderly and the severity of the reaction is compounded with existing health conditions in the sufferer.
• We have already had an extremely large number of deaths.

Two posters have already stated that they will not be getting the vaccine if one becomes available. You have avoided a direct answer up to this point but everything you've posted on vaccines in the time we've known each other on THL suggests the answer is no. Again please feel to correct me.

If the answer is indeed no, and if you don't feel you have a moral obligation to vaccinate, that's fine. I've already stated on numerous occasions to yourself and others that it is entirely up to you. You are free to do as you please. You have that freedom of choice and I respect that freedom.

However if you don't choose to vaccinate what other steps are you taking to ensure that you don't potentially infect others, or indeed avoid the virus entirely? I've already stated what I am doing and planning to do but you've smugly and arrogantly called it 'shit' and 'stupid.' This isn't a guilt trip or an attempt at the moral high ground. This a pretty clear cut case of personal responsibility in the middle of a pandemic. Where do you stand?

While I think about it. How would you, @scotty12, and @Neobliviscaris1776, feel if private businesses (shops, supermarkets, etc) and public institutions (schools, hospitals, etc) refuse to allow you access to their premises, in the future, if you haven't vaccinated against the virus?

Would you feel that your rights have been violated akin to being refused access to a wedding cake, from a baker that doesn't share your moral values?

[gnasher16 30,025]

Clever post that....clever intelligent not clever scornful.

[gnasher16 30,025]

1 hour ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

Possibly more to do with intelligence than superiority. Or are they the same thing? Possibly

I think it would be fair to say that when it comes to power,intellect and de facto authority blacks and whites are at totally opposite ends of the racial hierarchy.

[low plains drifter 10,289]

10 hours ago, timmytree said:

One of my neighbours lived in South Africa for years. She told me about blacks stealing outside taps from the farm then putting them on the walls of their huts. No pipework at all but they expected water to come out.

Abracadabra  

[Neobliviscaris1776 1,998]

11 hours ago, ChrisJones said:

While I think about it. How would you, @scotty12, and @Neobliviscaris1776, feel if private businesses (shops, supermarkets, etc) and public institutions (schools, hospitals, etc) refuse to allow you access to their premises, in the future, if you haven't vaccinated against the virus? Would you feel that your rights have been violated akin to being refused access to a wedding cake, from a baker that doesn't share your moral values?

If that did materialize, I would be extremely grateful to my senses of foresight and would be glad I refused to compromise my own standards.

What your describing there are scenarios that are clearly an infringement on freedom of choice as is clear in other countries around the world and regimes past and present.

My choice to refuse or accept medical treatment, booster shots, vaccines, has nothing do with other people. Nor is it my duty to impose my choices on others.

That's where the line gets drawn. Americans would understand this more than most considering the circumstances surrounding the birth of the nation and Constitution. 

[ChrisJones 7,975]

10 hours ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

What your describing there are scenarios that are clearly an infringement on freedom of choice as is clear in other countries around the world and regimes past and present.

You think? Your freedom of choice hasn't been infringed. No one is forcing you to vaccinate and in what would seem like a complete paradox I don't believe anyone should force you to vaccinate. Your choice not to is frankly baffling to me but I liken it to free speech... I may disagree with what you say but I support your freedom to say it. This is no different. I'm more curious as to what measures you're willing take outside of vaccination in the middle of this global pandemic. Distancing? Hygiene? Masks? Etc? None of you have commented on what steps you will take to avoid potential spread of this virus.

10 hours ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

My choice to refuse or accept medical treatment, booster shots, vaccines, has nothing do with other people. Nor is it my duty to impose my choices on others.

I agree with your first sentence but not your second. Your choice not to do any of the above could potentially force the consequences of that choice on others. Others that want to minimize their risk of infection. You could spread it, unknowingly, with anything from little to drastic consequences. I accept that you're not doing it intentionally but the consequences don't differentiate between accidental or intentional in this pandemic. You have rights and I respect that. But so do I.

10 hours ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

That's where the line gets drawn. Americans would understand this more than most considering the circumstances surrounding the birth of the nation and Constitution.

It's fully understood, mate. That's the point though. If enough people are willing to risk exposure and contamination it would be my duty as a business owner to protect my customer base. It is my choice to do anything I can to stop the potential spread via my own actions. Period.

I would personally feel morally obligated to ensure their well being to ensure repeated business. You have the freedom of choice to do as you please. So do I. If my business would be harmed by your actions I would take steps to ensure you can't. This is how freedom and consequences play out.

Many threads ago there was a baker that refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, based on religious grounds. Social media outrage ensued and they sued the baker for discrimination and won. I disagreed with the baker's moral objection to baking the cake but I supported his right to do so. He ultimately has the right to refuse service to anyone for whatever reason. The gay couple in question could have just as easily gone to any other establishment and ordered a wedding cake without fuss instead they set a legal precedent that has far reaching consequences for civil liberties.

If you, or anyone, refused to vaccinate. Or wear PPE. Follow basic hygiene and distancing procedures. I would refuse you entry to my business for the sake of myself and my customers. The consequence to you is that you can't shop here and will go elsewhere. The consequence to me is that I lose your business revenue. Both of our rights and freedoms of choice are still intact.

Here in America more and more private establishments are taking steps to limit virus transmission. This will increase as the country gradually opens up. They're taking people's temperatures entering premises. Insisting customers wear face masks and hand sanitized upon entry. Limiting interaction and enforcing distancing between people inside the premises. This isn't infringing your rights as you're free to engage or not. This isn't infringing my rights to insist you respect the integrity of my business.

Edited May 10, 2020 by ChrisJones
Typo

[MH1 1,866]

[Mickey Finn 3,004]

10 hours ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

My choice to refuse or accept medical treatment, booster shots, vaccines, has nothing do with other people. Nor is it my duty to impose my choices on others.

 

10 hours ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

That's where the line gets drawn. Americans would understand this more than most considering the circumstances surrounding the birth of the nation and Constitution. 

I'm an American and I know what the SCOTUS said about mandatory vaccinations. If a state orders it done in an emergency. It's constitutionally supported. Even adults who are not in a public school. I know of workers in Hospitals who declined vaccination during one of the larger epidemics. They were all terminated. No court would even hear it.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Mickey Finn

[ChrisJones 7,975]

2 minutes ago, Mickey Finn said:

I know of workers in Hospitals who declined vaccination during one of the larger epidemics. They were all terminated. No court would even hear it.

Down here it's a condition of employment for healthcare workers. I'm assuming a similar policy is in place across the US. No vaccination. No job. Your rights are still intact. You have the freedom of choice not to vaccinate but the employer has the freedom not to let you work for them.

[Francie 6,368]

1 minute ago, Mickey Finn said:

It's really hard to define personal liberty when you are speaking off a highly communicable disease which we cannot cure. You describe it as your choice. Which, it may well be depending on what the courts decide. I wonder, would you except confinement in place of vaccination? If vaccination was ordered would you take up arms and shoot?

I'm an American and I know what the SCOTUS said about mandatory vaccinations. If a state orders it done in an emergency. It's constitutionally supported. Even adults who are not in a public school. I know of workers in Hospitals who declined vaccination during one of the larger epidemics. They were all terminated. No court would even hear it.

f**k the courts, they can go an f**k mickey. 

No one owns no one, nothing can be forced on anyone, no matter what. 

 

Be realistic, there's loads of strains of this corona, just like the flu, an it's a hit an miss as choosing which strain comes along, do you want to vaccinate for all the strains or just the one? 

Half a mill die round the world of flu every year, vaccines are not the answer. 

So will you an Chris be lining up to get injected, like Guinea pigs, cause there's no trials, youl be the trials. 

[ChrisJones 7,975]

4 minutes ago, Balaur said:

I think it's three of this pandemic, where as flu it 250 ish, so at least be easier to stick all three in a jab than guess 5 out of 250 most likely for that particular season....

Bill Gates is going to have a hard time making all those jabs in his garage...