ChrisJones 7,975 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, waltjnr said: Scary times ,but why is no one pointing a finger and beying for blood ???you ruins countries economy, (worlds) and we just carry on ??? Mental !! They are but would you agree this pandemic is a 'bigger fish to fry' kinda scenario? Who would you start with? China for the outbreak and misleading the world? Several first world leaders who were woefully unprepared and who have also downplayed the risks? Several first world governments for not moving quickly enough due to bureaucracy? Millions of people panic buying and flouting the measures put in place to stem/slow the virus? Where do we start? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francie 6,368 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 minute ago, ChrisJones said: They are but would you agree this pandemic is a 'bigger fish to fry' kinda scenario? Who would you start with? China for the outbreak and misleading the world? Several first world leaders who were woefully unprepared and who have also downplayed the risks? Several first world governments for not moving quickly enough due to bureaucracy? Millions of people panic buying and flouting the measures put in place to stem/slow the virus? Where do we start? Well I suggest we start with the director of the who, who said at the start, that the covid was not infectious an to carry on as normal? Have a look into that director, we're he came from before he got the job, an how he told trump not to close border, but trump ignored him an closed it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Francie said: Here ye go about the doctor. Thanks for that. Did you read the one I posted above about the jury still being out? There's one here from Le Monde reporting that unexplained deaths, ventricular arrhythmias and other serious cardiac events are presenting in patients taking hydroxychloroquine therapeutically, casting further doubt on it's suitability as a treatment for C19. Maybe one of our members that could translate the French article into English could give us a summary? 5 minutes ago, Francie said: An yeah big medical navy ship sent into help, is it overcrowded with covid patients? Or what's the craic? Honestly don't know what the craic is. It was sent to help with a potential overflow from NY hospitals and whether it's doing that I don't know. I know that NY services are stretched but to what degree I honestly can't comment because I don't live in NY. Again, was sending it premature or is preparing for a SHTF scenario an acceptable use of public resources? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Francie said: Well I suggest we start with the director of the who, who said at the start, that the covid was not infectious an to carry on as normal? Have a look into that director, we're he came from before he got the job, an how he told trump not to close border, but trump ignored him an closed it? There's certainly an addition to the list for sure but let's not turn this into another Donnie thread. His actions during all of this are for another day when this sh*t has blown over! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francie 6,368 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) Yeah Chris read it, but here's more success, Dr Anthony cardillo is treating very sick covid patients with that hydroxy an zinc. An within 12hours there symptom free. Dr cardillo says the hydroxy opens the cell an let's zinc in an it stops the reproduction. If this stuff works, we're does that leave there big vaccine? Edited April 12, 2020 by Francie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Francie said: If this stuff works, we're does that leave there big vaccine? IF! If it works great! Let's ramp up the cure and distribute it in so we can get a grip on this virus! But using a small test group to the claim of a definitive cure could be dangerous, at worst, and could be ineffective entirely. We know it works fantastic against malaria but we still have to test it against C19 and then we'll know whether the greater good outweighs the risk of using it. The mild side effects of the drug mimic the symptoms of C19 and the serious side effects can cause irreparable harm. And that's before we start on the average bloke trying to dose themselves for a virus that doesn't have any dosage information on that particular illness. This is why we have to test it widespread! Read here, here, and here about the risks of using the drugs without suitable testing as to their effectiveness. But if it works it brings up the point I made earlier in this thread about supply and demand. The rush on this cure will outstrip the supply of this of cure. Akin to panic buying as both the Trump and Bolsonaro administrations have ordered millions of units from India essentially stripping the shelves of the current supply. Unlike bog roll and sanitizer this is a medication that people use to treat illnesses that it's proven to work against and will now put those sufferers at risk. It will also put the average public at increased risk of exposure as they will have to fight their way through the local chemists on the off chance that they can keep it on the shelves and those that will buy will start jacking up the price of it and selling it to anyone that's willing to pay for it. Just like all the earlier posts on this forum of people taking screenshots of sh*t tickets, kitchen roll, and hand sanitizer. I know you're bafflingly anti-vaccine, mate, but how does switching from one pharmaceutical product that doesn't make them much money to one that makes them the bulk of their income change any argument you've made against big pharma in the time you've posted to the point? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stumfelter 3,034 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 41 minutes ago, Francie said: Well I suggest we start with the director of the who, who said at the start, that the covid was not infectious an to carry on as normal? Have a look into that director, we're he came from before he got the job, an how he told trump not to close border, but trump ignored him an closed it? What the hell has Corona got to do with Roger daltrey? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francie 6,368 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ChrisJones said: IF! If it works great! Let's ramp up the cure and distribute it in so we can get a grip on this virus! But using a small test group to the claim of a definitive cure could be dangerous, at worst, and could be ineffective entirely. We know it works fantastic against malaria but we still have to test it against C19 and then we'll know whether the greater good outweighs the risk of using it. The mild side effects of the drug mimic the symptoms of C19 and the serious side effects can cause irreparable harm. And that's before we start on the average bloke trying to dose themselves for a virus that doesn't have any dosage information on that particular illness. This is why we have to test it widespread! Read here, here, and here about the risks of using the drugs without suitable testing as to their effectiveness. But if it works it brings up the point I made earlier in this thread about supply and demand. The rush on this cure will outstrip the supply of this of cure. Akin to panic buying as both the Trump and Bolsonaro administrations have ordered millions of units from India essentially stripping the shelves of the current supply. Unlike bog roll and sanitizer this is a medication that people use to treat illnesses that it's proven to work against and will now put those sufferers at risk. It will also put the average public at increased risk of exposure as they will have to fight their way through the local chemists on the off chance that they can keep it on the shelves and those that will buy will start jacking up the price of it and selling it to anyone that's willing to pay for it. Just like all the earlier posts on this forum of people taking screenshots of sh*t tickets, kitchen roll, and hand sanitizer. I know you're bafflingly anti-vaccine, mate, but how does switching from one pharmaceutical product that doesn't make them much money to one that makes them the bulk of their income change any argument you've made against big pharma in the time you've posted to the point? But sure how many vaccines are tested @Chris Jones? An I don't think the people dying with covid will want to wait around for a vaccine, I'd say if there something showing results, it either that or die, because the vaccine is no we're near ready. Its not about the money Chris, its about dying patients in a hospital with no hope only this new treatment, they need treated now not down the line, they've not got time on there hands. Edited April 12, 2020 by Francie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francie 6,368 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 minute ago, stumfelter said: What the hell has Corona got to do with Roger daltrey? Apolagies the world health organization Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Francie said: But sure how many vaccines are tested @Chris Jones? An I don't think the people dying with covid will want to wait around for a vaccine, I'd say if there something showing results, it either that or die, because the vaccine is no we're near ready. How many are tested total, or tested to see if they're safe overall? They're all tested before manufacture (overall) but I sincerely doubt they test every single one before they go into a vial. Same with pills. I can understand what you're saying but why increase your risk of contracting the illness trying to buy something we don't know whether it will even treat the illness never mind cure the illness? It seems you're convinced it works. No? Are you willing to just take handfuls for the sake of it or would you rather see some actual widespread evidence before rushing out to Boots for what could have the same results as buying a pint of milk? Link: Fact Check On What We Currently Know About Hydroxychloroquine TL:DR (Too Long Didn't Read) Dr. Anthony Fauci of the National Institutes of Health was asked March 24 whether the drug was considered a treatment for the novel coronavirus. "The answer is no," he said, "and the evidence that you're talking about ... is anecdotal evidence." Edited April 12, 2020 by ChrisJones Additional Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Francie said: Its not about the money Chris, its about dying patients in a hospital with no hope only this new treatment, they need treated now not down the line, they've not got time on there hands. Agreed but if this new treatment doesn't work it won't change the outcome, will it? If it does great but if everyone strips the shelves of an untested product to stave off an illness they may not have where will those that need it get the drugs from? Seriously. How many NHS hospitals don't have enough masks for the frontline while people are already buying up the woefully small amount in circulation? You're right about time being critical though. A lot in intensive care patients don't have time and encouraging people to buy drugs, pushing up the demand and diminishing the supply, to those that actually need those drugs for clinically proven results against diseases we know they work for removes their time, no? Edited April 12, 2020 by ChrisJones Typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francie 6,368 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, ChrisJones said: How many are tested total, or tested to see if they're safe overall? They're all tested before manufacture (overall) but I sincerely doubt they test every single one before they go into a vial. Same with pills. I can understand what you're saying but why increase your risk of contracting the illness trying to buy something we don't know whether it will even treat the illness never mind cure the illness? It seems you're convinced it works. No? Are you willing to just take handfuls for the sake of it or would you rather see some actual widespread evidence before rushing out to Boots for what could have the same results as buying a pint of milk? Link: Fact Check On What We Currently Know About Hydroxychloroquine TL:DR (Too Long Didn't Read) Dr. Anthony Fauci of the National Institutes of Health was asked March 24 whether the drug was considered a treatment for the novel coronavirus. "The answer is no," he said, "and the evidence that you're talking about ... is anecdotal evidence." Yeah I get your point, but that's two doctors who been treating patients with good results, it's doesn't matter about the side effects, the people are ready to die from covid. An the doctor also says the positive covid patients who are not ill, should not touch it. Dr faccui said this on the 24th of March, what dates today? 12th April today, that was three weeks ago, these doctors have been treating there patients recently mate. An no bud I'm not convinced it works, don't shoot the messanger. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Francie said: Yeah I get your point, but that's two doctors who been treating patients with good results, it's doesn't matter about the side effects, the people are ready to die from covid. Fair one and that's genuinely encouraging but it does matter about side effects. It does matter about whether it will actually work on a large scale. This is a global issue. We simply will not be able to dose everyone in a small amount of time. Production will have to be ramped up and unfortunately that means the costs will too. One of your arguments against vaccines is the side effects. Why would this differ? 5 minutes ago, Francie said: An the doctor also says the positive covid patients who are not ill, should not touch it. Great. But Nevada's governor has already had to issue an executive order to limit the outpatient supply to those with actual medical conditions to prevent panic buying and stockpiling. This is one of the side effects of the modern media where soundbites are all anyone listens too and the ramifications they're causing while everyone is panicked. People don't listen to doctors and medical professionals. They hear anti malaria drug cures C19 and they rush out and get whatever they can. 10 minutes ago, Francie said: Dr faccui said this on the 24th of March, what dates today? 12th April today, that was three weeks ago, these doctors have been treating there patients recently mate. That's just disingenuous mate. Clinical trials take a minute. There's plenty come out in the meantime that I've already posted that is casting doubt on it's effectiveness hence the need for serious testing. We don't even know at this early stage whether the drug cured or whether they recovered from the symptoms despite the drugs. Either way Dr Fauci is the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. He says the jury is out on this treatment and that's good enough for me. We're just anonymous blokes on the internet talking about sh*t we don't know enough about and everyone needs to bear that in mind who reads any of this! 16 minutes ago, Francie said: An no bud I'm not convinced it works, don't shoot the messanger. Will you get the jab when it comes out? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 20,824 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 @Francie 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Accip74 7,112 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 38 minutes ago, kanny said: @Francie Plants & seeds essential items here Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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