Terrier work in the USA - Photos and Stories.

[Bolero 67]

Just now, Glyn..... said:

there were Bulldog and there were terriers and then the were bull and terriers then  bull terriers from many different areas and then some hundred years later there were apbt,  I think you may find working terriers and gameness predates  the pit dog 

Mic drop you win. You guys have way to much good ole boy knowledge for me. Poodles are more my speed anyway. Good luck to all y’all furture endeavors God speed 

[JMc 226]

Armchair expert here,but I like the narrative that the Apbt is the original bulldog,and has been around long before that deformed bulldog that became the show bulldog appeared....then they added terrier and got the Ebt out of that.As for gameness, ie wanting to do its job/task even when it’s clearly taking a beating,and prey drive being catch and hold well both gamebred pits and working terriers have this,the aces in bucketloads.Only read the last page of thread,was there an argument going on ...on either not being game???atb J

[Black neck 15,899]

Right so these jack Russell s then 

[JMc 226]

Huskies....(some)will run themselves to death to complete the task...gameness no?

[Greb147 6,809]

1 minute ago, JMc said:

Huskies....(some)will run themselves to death to complete the task...gameness no?

Dumbness. 

[JMc 226]

Hehe lol,dumbness maybe,just depends what you have and what you’re trying to achieve,I see it as gameness,not quitting when clearly you’re f****d,it’s what we all admire 

[Greb147 6,809]

2 minutes ago, JMc said:

Hehe lol,dumbness maybe,just depends what you have and what you’re trying to achieve,I see it as gameness,not quitting when clearly you’re f****d,it’s what we all admire 

I suppose other breeds have gameness it's just how we define it. 

There's no doubt though that box dogs and working terriers have to endure the most brutal of sports to show it. 

I've said before though, gameness didn't just fall out the sky and spray sprinkle dust over the APBT and it's ancestors. 

[JMc 226]

No,that was selective breeding,same goes for working terriers and it came up on here a while back about lads working certain quarry,without them suicidally game dogs entering the gene pool don’t you end up with nothing but bayers...then worse.And you’re right the hardest task for both 

[Greb147 6,809]

13 minutes ago, JMc said:

No,that was selective breeding,same goes for working terriers and it came up on here a while back about lads working certain quarry,without them suicidally game dogs entering the gene pool don’t you end up with nothing but bayers...then worse.And you’re right the hardest task for both 

The point is it must have been there to start with, you can't breed for something that's not their in the first place

 

[JMc 226]

Yeah ok,that’s why I think some bulldog historians believe there was no need to add terrier to there breed because it was already the agile athlete not the fat,short,nose pushed back dog called bulldog today.Seems that name American pit bull terrier caused confusion,as I know you know they were always referred to as Bulldog.As soon as Pitbull terriers was used you automatically think terrier is in the mix but some folk who have done some next level research think they were from ancient Mollosar types.Preaching to the enlightened here but you know bulldogs/pits over in states weight has always varied massively 20lb up to 100lb dogs and of course all saying yeah it’s pure bulldog/pit no mix in it at all,who knows,we all know where full of shit,at least you should if you’re over 30

[Greb147 6,809]

7 minutes ago, baker boy said:

You can though introduce qualities into the next generation of your stock that may be lacking in 1 of the parents

Yes but you can't add gameness if it was never there in the first place. 

It's a trait that can and does show up in wild animals even though it's rare. 

[JMc 226]

Gameness is interesting because people have different ideas on it,how do you define it?Are you talking individual animals Greb or something as a whole like Honeybadgers?

[Aussie Whip 4,097]

Heaps of dog breeds are game as are a lot of wild animals but I think gameness is over rated in a way. Everything needs brains and skill to achieve the task whether it's winning a fight or hunting.Dead gameness that is often spoken about can't be bred for because the animal has to die to prove it. Deep gameness is all you can breed from in the hope of getting a terminal dead game animal.

[JMc 226]

Where does gameness come from seems to be a good question,ability to do its job or the desire to catch,hold and consume be it a working terrier or a gamebred pit is prey drive. Some gamebred champions were that good at the catch hold consume there gameness was questioned as they were never taking a beating.

[JMc 226]

Just to come round to what I read and made me start posting,yeah I reckon the working terrier over any other breed has the toughest job, I also think it’s gameness and preydrive that’s called on every dig,for the good ones.