Variation finally gone in !

[Sausagedog 7,381]

Can air go supersonic with near 40gn now?

[villaman 9,982]

1 minute ago, Sausagedog said:

Can air go supersonic with near 40gn now?

I think you fined .30 will and I can run my impact .25 @ 1050 with 34 gr if I liked but I don’t , but at 970 FPS 

[Sausagedog 7,381]

 

19 minutes ago, villaman said:

I think you fined .30 will and I can run my impact .25 @ 1050 with 34 gr if I liked but I don’t , but at 970 FPS 

But not 1200-1600 FPS.

Just to add another angle my 357 cost about £350. With that I use to load ammo from 600fps to 1700fps.

The risk of leaking seals. Bottle testing and high pressure pumps will never trump the above unless the cost drops significantly.

I get how a sub 12 is useful and safe but the fac options are close to a 22 subbie now so the safer option advantage is lost making it an unecassary option!

Even if one is an accuracy addict target 22's and match ammo abound.

[philpot 5,052]

I must say my ammo for the .22lr as you know SD is the Hornady at 1160fps and of course go with CCI and run up to 1640fps which is certainly more than our Impacts will run at.  The WMR  will run from 1500 to 2200fps so the next level up from the .22lr for me and something I am looking forward to testing when I sort the gun.

The bottom line is that both types of rifle have advantages and disadvantages to suit a whole range applications, some of which we don't always see as they are not obvious to us all. One thing is for sure we are all going to see some massive changes when the slugs become an everyday item, then the learning curve in the UK will really reach new levels.

Seals are a pain for a number of people and these guns have a lot of them, I am touching wood when I say that I have not had these problems but no doubt the day will come. Oh joy.

Phil

[Alsone 789]

Not wanting to turn this into a pissing match between air and powder, but I'm not sure there's a practical air rifle Villaman that matches .22lr. Remember, .22lr is around 190 ft lbs, depending on the ammunition selected. It's subs that are around 99ft lbs and even then, you're still driving a 40gr hollow point. I don't personally know of an air rifle that can match that in .22. In fact the only air rifle I know of that can attain 190 ft lbs is the Dragon Slayer which is a 50 cal. Even then, you've got very limited shots before a refill. Turn to .22 WMR and you increase the energy to 350ft lbs which is then near double the Dragon Slayer. I  have no doubt FAC air can push a pellet further but the reason is it's a lighter projectile. If you really want 170yd bunny performance then .17 HMR buys you that again for a lot less than FAC air.

Except turned down in a barn, I can't see the safety argument for FAC air either. For sure the ultimate distance travelled may be less, but as in the caravan park scenario above, if you hit an individual, 90ft lbs is 90ft lbs.

I can see the flexibility of turning a valve down. However, carrying a variety of .22 lr ammo can match that. The hardest part with .22 lr is finding CB's for low power work. Shorts are a bit easier and subs / HV's no issue.

 

[vizlauk 1,568]

Variation back already,  well done Northumbria police firearms dept ! All sorted on paper, looked at a few .223 but no purchase due to neglect,  so looks like I will be buying new

[walshie 2,804]

On 27/01/2020 at 21:55, Alsone said:

Not wanting to turn this into a pissing match between air and powder, but I'm not sure there's a practical air rifle Villaman that matches .22lr. Remember, .22lr is around 190 ft lbs, depending on the ammunition selected. It's subs that are around 99ft lbs and even then, you're still driving a 40gr hollow point. I don't personally know of an air rifle that can match that in .22. In fact the only air rifle I know of that can attain 190 ft lbs is the Dragon Slayer which is a 50 cal. Even then, you've got very limited shots before a refill. Turn to .22 WMR and you increase the energy to 350ft lbs which is then near double the Dragon Slayer. I  have no doubt FAC air can push a pellet further but the reason is it's a lighter projectile. If you really want 170yd bunny performance then .17 HMR buys you that again for a lot less than FAC air.

Except turned down in a barn, I can't see the safety argument for FAC air either. For sure the ultimate distance travelled may be less, but as in the caravan park scenario above, if you hit an individual, 90ft lbs is 90ft lbs.

I can see the flexibility of turning a valve down. However, carrying a variety of .22 lr ammo can match that. The hardest part with .22 lr is finding CB's for low power work. Shorts are a bit easier and subs / HV's no issue.

 

CCI make a 22lr round called CCI Quiet. They're about 40 ft/lbs and err... quiet, but for shooting purposes practically useless. Shooting at about 50 yards you can literally see the bullet falling out of the air through the scope. I use them for despatching caged foxes at a range of 6". I can imagine shorts being even more impractical.  

[Sausagedog 7,381]

20 minutes ago, walshie said:

CCI make a 22lr round called CCI Quiet. They're about 40 ft/lbs and err... quiet, but for shooting purposes practically useless. Shooting at about 50 yards you can literally see the bullet falling out of the air through the scope. I use them for despatching caged foxes at a range of 6". I can imagine shorts being even more impractical.  

There use to be high velocity shorts and longs with 26-29gn hp bullets.

They were far from useless and we use to use them easily to 80yds.

[philpot 5,052]

3 hours ago, vizlauk said:

Variation back already,  well done Northumbria police firearms dept ! All sorted on paper, looked at a few .223 but no purchase due to neglect,  so looks like I will be buying new

Nice one Sean, I take it the rifle we spoke about is a non starter.   No ticket yet but I have found a rifle.

Phil

[Alsone 789]

6 hours ago, Sausagedog said:

There use to be high velocity shorts and longs with 26-29gn hp bullets.

They were far from useless and we use to use them easily to 80yds.

This!

I've shot both shorts and CB's. Shorts were on an indoor range, so not live prey, but in HV, you'd no more want to be hit by one than a regular LR. They were just as fast down the range and really struck the metal back plate with considerable force. On a 25yd range there's no discernable difference between the crack of the gun and the short hitting the steel back plate, just one loud bang. Whilst there's no doubt they don't have the same energy as LR, they're certainly going to kill well as Sausage attests. As for CB's, I've also shot those at Blackpool of all places, on a shore front shooting gallery 40 years ago (!) = probably long gone now as I can't see any Council / Police force licensing a powder based gallery anymore, especially as Blackpool is full of drunken idiots. I doubt H&S even allows air gun galleries. However, whilst very low powered, they still hit the steel with a slam and there's no doubt in a barn or at close range they'd be good for rats, birds etc. Even though they are low powered, 20ft lbs still puts them in FAC air territory so care is still needed with the consideration for the resilience of the background to that energy, although I would imagine a good steel roofing sheet might stop them. If anyone's never seen them, they tend to be like a ball ammunition. Imagine a lead fishing shot with a copper back plate with powder that's only a few mm thick. Not sure if they require a special chamber adaptor due to their small size, but I've never heard of it. Guess the "pellet" just bypasses most of the chamber on it's way out.

[walshie 2,804]

9 hours ago, Sausagedog said:

There use to be high velocity shorts and longs with 26-29gn hp bullets.

They were far from useless and we use to use them easily to 80yds.

Yeah my bad. I actually meant CB caps at 26ft/lb as referred to earlier. You wouldn't be shooting much at 80yds with them. 

[Sausagedog 7,381]

6 minutes ago, walshie said:

Yeah my bad. I actually meant CB caps at 26ft/lb as referred to earlier. You wouldn't be shooting much at 80yds with them. 

I had a Winchester 69a. It was designed to handle any size 22 from the magazine. It was fantastic with what ever I put in it but the CB ammo is for the garden only really. Barn pigeons too.

[Dervburner 2,549]

7 hours ago, walshie said:

Yeah my bad. I actually meant CB caps at 26ft/lb as referred to earlier. You wouldn't be shooting much at 80yds with them. 

Are these the ones? The copper ones are sellier & bellot and there’s a few rws acorn brand lead ones mixed in. They run at about 850 FPS and weigh 16 grains. Only accurate up to about ten yards though, depending on the rifle. 

[Dervburner 2,549]

18 hours ago, vizlauk said:

Variation back already,  well done Northumbria police firearms dept ! All sorted on paper, looked at a few .223 but no purchase due to neglect,  so looks like I will be buying new

That’s quick, I posted mine on Monday, if it’s back as quick as yours I’ll be happy, if not amazed. Enjoy your shopping