Encouraging spaniels to hit cover.

[Lloyd90 509]

Any tips you lads have to get a spaniel (springer) very keen to hit cover ... mine will absolutely fly across grass, reedy ground and recently some light bracken but he can be running flat out, gets to cover and stops flat. Ideally I would want him to charge through like he was the reeds etc and not stop at all. 

[fatlad 250]

The dogs ive seen usually hunt cover if there's sent around if not start taking the dog through woods what are you wanting to work the dog on 

[ollieollie 766]

4 minutes ago, fatlad said:

The dogs ive seen usually hunt cover if there's sent around if not start taking the dog through woods what are you wanting to work the dog on 

My cockers the same, if he can’t smell it he ain’t goin for a look

[Elchapo 3,166]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

Any tips you lads have to get a spaniel (springer) very keen to hit cover ... mine will absolutely fly across grass, reedy ground and recently some light bracken but he can be running flat out, gets to cover and stops flat. Ideally I would want him to charge through like he was the reeds etc and not stop at all. 

How old is it , unbelievable to some but some spaniels will just not smash cover unless there is sent in there bitch I had was bred out some cracking stuff but she will not hit cover hard unless scent is about , then she turns it on and will smash through , some people over face there dogs getting* them in tight cover to soon or trying to get 5hem to enter cover pointing at hole and telling them get in which doesn’t do dog any good , try chucking dummy in to light cover then working it’s way up in to thicker stuff  but don’t over face it , try getting the dog with the wind in its face so scent blowing through the cover but sometimes dogs just won’t enter unless scent about 

[Lloyd90 509]

7 minutes ago, Elchapo said:

How old is it , unbelievable to some but some spaniels will just not smash cover unless there is sent in there bitch I had was bred out some cracking stuff but she will not hit cover hard unless scent is about , then she turns it on and will smash through , some people over face there dogs getting* them in tight cover to soon or trying to get 5hem to enter cover pointing at hole and telling them get in which doesn’t do dog any good , try chucking dummy in to light cover then working it’s way up in to thicker stuff  but don’t over face it , try getting the dog with the wind in its face so scent blowing through the cover but sometimes dogs just won’t enter unless scent about 

He’s coming up 20 months mate, I haven’t over faced him with cover. 

Previously he wouldn’t run into longer grass etc but now he flys through it. 

But I now need to progress onto thicker stuff again if he is going to trial or even do well at tests then he needs to get in and through it, instead of stopping and standing still when he gets to it. 
 

 

[RTurlough 160]

Hope you don't mind me adding my pennys worth.

You would never encourage a lurcher to chase something that wasn't there, or keep putting a ferret down a dead rabbit burrow so it is vital a Springer isn't asked to work cover that might be dead also.

When you watch youtube videos of fieldtrial springers in action, most of the time they are working estate ground with released birds.  In fact the ground scent would be crazy which an FT springer has to differentiate between old and new scent.  But FT springer are given a time span of about 5-15mins max so bomb through cover for that small time-frame as this is how they are programmed.

If you want your dog to do this then you have to prepare the training ground accordingly, items for the dog to find during training.

If like most people you take your dog out and put up snipe, woodcock or grouse on all the heather moorland but then get to thick bramble and expect the dog to bomb through this it doesn't really work like that and for a few reasons.  Generally the dog quarters in front of you, so the first question is, are you walking through that tough cover as well?  If not then you can't expect the dog to be working fresh ground like that as all it will want to do is go in front of you as you walk along.

So during the training phase you have to keep it structured, short, highly positive and evolve your training, i.e. open woodland, then some with willow or rhododendron (no thorns) and then getting a bit tougher as you go.  Please don't take a dog not entering cover and try to train it in the summer in brambles as the wee dog will get destroyed. It can also end up highly frustrating for the handler for a dog in pain that doesn't want to work and a handler badgering the dog to get back into cover.

Here is what I do.  I find something that particular dog absolutely loves, I have a dog which loves rabbits and a bitch that loves birds so for the dog it is rabbit fur dummies or real dead rabbits I hide in cover and for the bitch it is either a winged dummy, partridge or pheasants thrown into cover as  I walk along a track.  I then go get the dog and begin quartering now entering the cover myself.  I don't have a rabbit pen but have access to a ton of wild game.

Please never follow on this ridiculous advice some people try to give, such as:

1) Never throw your dog into cover for being reluctant.

2) Never shout at your dog for not entering cover.

3 Never send an untrained dog into cover lacking any game. Especially again and again and again and .....you get my point.

4) If a dog in training can't find placed game (dead) never keep throwing or commanding the dog back into cover.  If it didn't find it the second time something like the wind might be wrong or it is high of the ground in cover that the dog can't get too.

I hope this helps.  I am only a simple countryman who enjoys working dogs but I dog have 20 years of experience with springers so that is my pennies worth right there.

[Elchapo 3,166]

Just now, Lloyd90 said:

He’s coming up 20 months mate, I haven’t over faced him with cover. 

Previously he wouldn’t run into longer grass etc but now he flys through it. 

But I now need to progress onto thicker stuff again if he is going to trial or even do well at tests then he needs to get in and through it, instead of stopping and standing still when he gets to it. 
 

 

Well if you haven’t over faced him then just use a dummy and work up to thicker cover ,,,

without trying sound like am trying to teach you to suck eggs , is there scent about on the ground /cover your trying to get him to enter ? As it will be easier to get him entering cover if something temps him in then once he realises that cover is where the game / dummy comes from he will start entering , think patience is the key , slowly slowly catchy monkey , try getting some scent on a dummy dragging it through grass in to thicker cover 

[Bosun11 537]

I have a half cocker bushing dog, which i got at just over a year old. I honestly thought I had a dud and for the first week went past local cover without a turn of the head... And that lasted till she scented something in there! Total change and she went through like a steam train and has and does ever since...

[C.green 3,229]

I hate to see a dog needlessly beating cover ive gave away very keen dogs for doing just that.

[Lloyd90 509]

11 hours ago, C.green said:

I hate to see a dog needlessly beating cover ive gave away very keen dogs for doing just that.

Why? A good field trial judge told me he’d be worried about a dog that just smashes cover for no reward... he would doubt its intelligence ... however the dog does need to face cover and at pace and with drive if it is going to trial. 
 

A good test dog will need to hit cover at times with no scent. 
 

 

I took mine up the woods today and threw several balls into cover where he could see, then kept adding balls to different spots, giving him the prompt to get in. He was going in and hunting round however many times he went in then stopped and stood still just stood there, but with some prompts hunted on. 

 

If I keep doing that over and over hopefully he will think cover is full of full stuff to find and be keener to get through it. 

[C.green 3,229]

Yeah a trial dog totally different to what i want out of a dog. Clue is in the word needlessy bashing cover i like a spaniel to hunt on scent abd not just beat cover to death

[Born Hunter 17,751]

I remember taking my cocker along on a shoot day when I'd just got him at 10 month old. He looked very timid and lifeless and another spaniel man on there was a bit dubious if he'd make anything. I just said "how many spaniels do you know that have too little 'hunt' in them?". He's f***ing flying now.

It's really simple, keep putting game infront of it! You'll have too much dog in no time if ya not careful.

[Lloyd90 509]

3 hours ago, Balaur said:

Balls don't compare to game, get it out somewhere where there's pheasants or rabbits or whatever you're wanting the dog to find . Get yourself some books on training , Joe Irving is decent. Some good advice in this topic, be good to find a mentor within trialling, not something I'm familiar with,  couple of mates had part trained trail dogs , bit too robotic for me. I've always got pups out in cover playing from get go after my first dog a sealyham Russell had an aversion to cover due to my teenage failings and ignorance. As said find some easier cover like bracken , reeds, privet with a few pheasants knocking about , atb Joe

First dog I’ve trained mate suppose we learn as we go along eh. 

What did you do with your old dog and what you do with your new ones? 
 

I think I own every training book going lol. I can take my dog out to places with cover but not always game. Gamekeepers / shoots don’t always like you flushing their birds on the shoot  but I have had the the dog out lately and will get him onto more game as we progress. 
 

I have spoken to a bloke who has a rabbit pen with varying cover in it so am planning to take the dog down for a run

[Lloyd90 509]

2 hours ago, Born Hunter said:

I remember taking my cocker along on a shoot day when I'd just got him at 10 month old. He looked very timid and lifeless and another spaniel man on there was a bit dubious if he'd make anything. I just said "how many spaniels do you know that have too little 'hunt' in them?". He's f***ing flying now.

It's really simple, keep putting game infront of it! You'll have too much dog in no time if ya not careful.

 

Let's hope so  

[jwed 16]

I agree with what everyone is saying. Someone told me once the last thing you want is for a springer to be a "busy fool", in other words tiring themselves out for nothing. My own springer will eat cover if there's any scent, if not he'll pass it. He has really high drive and never misses a bird if there's something in there.

like others said, bring him somewhere you know there's birds and see how he goes.