General election - who to vote for ?

[MH1 1,866]

47 minutes ago, walshie said:

Well Labour want to flood us with the dregs of the 3rd world. Libdems want to revoke A50, Boris wants to give amnesty to all the illegals already here and his Home Secretary is shipping more over every day. 

I know the Brexit Party don't have a hope, but they're getting my vote. 

And Plaid want to turn Wales into "a sanctuary for immigrants "

[walshie 2,804]

9 minutes ago, MH1 said:

And Plaid want to turn Wales into "a sanctuary for immigrants "

Yeah, they just kicked up a stink putting woman in a niqab on their party political poster. Turns out she is a Plaid activist with rather unsavoury views about Israel.

[jukel123 7,957]

Written by a lifelong tory and former political correspondent for The Telegraph.....

 

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

[WILF 46,603]

2 hours ago, jukel123 said:

Written by a lifelong tory and former political correspondent for The Telegraph.....

 

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

You’ll be going Libertarian after all our chats won’t you mate? Lol 

[Bobtheferret 1,248]

Vote for whoever you think will be best for you if elected, I do ask anyone voting to actually look into that party properly though before just voting though. There are no great options tbh, lots of negatives for all parties. I will be voting for Boris as it’s the only real chance of getting any kind of brexit but there are plenty of negatives to the Tory party. I will say though that Corbyn is a dangerous man for the uk and I genuinely believe would be disastrous for our country. His policies would bankrupt the country in no time and all his promises of “free” stuff will all need paying for as there’s no thing as free when it comes to government it’s all paid for with taxes or worse yet more unsustainable borrowing. Corbyn wants to rape the wealthy but they will simply f**k off and stop investing and employing people and leave the tax burden on normal tax payers. That’s without even mentioning the fact the man wants a coalition with SNP (English haters) and is a major supporter of terrorism and enemies of our country, wants to get rid of trident, they even have plans to tax anyone that owns their own home (as an extra to council tax), he cannot even stamp out antisemitism in his own party! A hard left, socialist, union puppet. labour would also try and ban all hunting with dogs given half a chance. For all you tribal labour voters if ever there was a time to stop voting labour this election is it!!!! Vote for anyone you want but I beg of you not labour! I have repeated asked on other threads for people that are voting labour to explain how they can vote for Corbyn and haven’t got a single proper answer....says it all!!!!! 

[jukel123 7,957]

58 minutes ago, WILF said:

You’ll be going Libertarian after all our chats won’t you mate? Lol 

When I read up on Libertarianism I found out that it was initially a leftie philosophy but it has now been adopted by the  far  right!  The extreme left and far right tend to have views which  eventually coincide. Neither for me. I'm voting Labour on the basis that I can't remember a single tory policy which has done any good for us. People cite the selling of council houses but all that has done is create  thousands more private landlords and screwed the younger generation.

The unions and Labour, for the last one  hundred years have created all the steps forward for ordinary people, the tories have tried (successfully in the last ten years of austerity) to claim all the progress back whilst punishing the poor, the sick and the low paid. The bankers who created the problem are laughing as usual.

Brexit is going to cause untold  serious shit in Ireland and Scotland. The tories will probably win, but because of our first past the post system the majority of punters who voted for non tory parties will have no say in government. I can see trouble ahead.

I was fast asleep Wilf and now you've stirred up a hornet's nest.

 

[Nicepix 5,650]

1 minute ago, jukel123 said:

When I read up on Libertarianism I found out that it was initially a leftie philosophy but it has now been adopted by the  far  right!  The extreme left and far right tend to have views which  eventually coincide. Neither for me. I'm voting Labour on the basis that I can't remember a single tory policy which has done any good for us. People cite the selling of council houses but all that has done is create  thousands more private landlords and screwed the younger generation.

The unions and Labour, for the last one  hundred years have created all the steps forward for ordinary people, the tories have tried (successfully in the last ten years of austerity) to claim all the progress back whilst punishing the poor, the sick and the low paid. The bankers who created the problem are laughing as usual.

Brexit is going to cause untold  serious shit in Ireland and Scotland. The tories will probably win, but because of our first past the post system the majority of punters who voted for non tory parties will have no say in government. I can see trouble ahead.

I was fast asleep Wilf and now you've stirred up a hornet's nest.

 

I think that you will find that it was Labour politicians under the Bliar /Brown governments who accelerated the privatisation of the NHS with their Public Private Partnerships and that is one of the reasons why the NHS hasn't got enough money to treat the sick. They also meddled in the railways creating today's problems for commuters and in Meddlesome's own words went to places like Afghanistan recruiting illegal immigrants to come over to the UK to fill black market jobs. Those three Bliar /Brown governments carried on what Thatcher started.

As for the unions; I remember them creating the Three Day Week and endless national strikes that crippled the country and lead directly to the acceleration of closures of docks, car factories and steel works. The Strawbs summed it up with their song: Part of the Union

Now I'm a union man
Amazed at what I am
I say what I think, that the company stinks
Yes I'm a union man
When we meet in the local hall
I'll be voting with them all
With a hell of a shout, it's "Out brothers, out!"
And the rise of the factory's fall
Oh, you don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
Until the day I die, until the day I die
As a union man I'm wise
To the lies of the company spies
And I don't get fooled by the factory rules
'Cause I always read between the lines
And I always get my way
If I strike for higher pay
When I show my card to the Scotland Yard
And this is what I say
Oh, oh, you don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
Until the day I die, until the day I die
Before the union did appear
My life was half as clear
Now I've got the power to the working hour
And every other day of the year
So though I'm a working man
I can ruin the government's plan
And though I'm not hard, the sight of my card
Makes me some kind of superman
Oh, oh, oh, you don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
Until the day I die, until the day I die
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
Until the day I die, until the day I die

 

 

[Bobtheferret 1,248]

Every labour government in of history of this country has left office with the economy in a significantly worse state than they found it in and moaning about Tory austerity as a labour voter is pretty one sided as the last labour chancellor left a note saying there is no money! What choice did they have?? History of global economics shows that spending your way out a recession doesn’t work! Socialism ends up hurting the people they claim to represent. You can’t just keep spending money the country don’t have and keep letting non contributing immigrants and health tourists into the country and then wonder why we have no money and a struggling NHS. Labour and a labour government have a massive role to play in the future of modern uk but this Labour Party and there leader are not modern but a dangerous 1970’s throwback destined to bankrupt our uk and cause ever more division in the uk with referendums and tax rises. 

[jukel123 7,957]

I came across  an expression the other day..."confirmation bias". People believe what they want to believe no matter what the evidence. I think Johnstone is a moral cesspit and Farage a spiv. Tommy Robinson is another professional agitator/journalist, who like Farage makes a very good living out of gullible people's fears. Lots of you guys think the opposite even though we are exposed to the same media outlets and information. Not much point in wasting time on here trying to persuade each other of our different viewpoints.

All I want to point out is that the NHS, sick pay, pensions, overtime and shift payments, decent council housing and the comprehensive education system ( which allows a little class mobility)  were all Labour Party initiatives. They were hard fought for by the unions. When the last Labour Party were in power they spent the same as France and Germany on health spending, about 12% per cent of GDP. Under the tories we have seen total spending drop to just over 8 per cent of GDP. How can we have a world class health system when we spend so little on it? The tories really are running down the NHS in order to claim that the only way forward is to privatise it.

Nobody in their right mind wants to destroy capitalism and adopt socialism/communism. We have seen where that leads. But we don't have to have this vicious, neanderthal capitalism with food banks, homeless people dying in tents, and virtually no social care for the elderly. The nordic countries do capitalism much better.

Over and out.

[Lenmcharristar 9,727]

12 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

I came across  an expression the other day..."confirmation bias". People believe what they want to believe no matter what the evidence. I think Johnstone is a moral cesspit and Farage a spiv. Tommy Robinson is another professional agitator/journalist, who like Farage makes a very good living out of gullible people's fears. Lots of you guys think the opposite even though we are exposed to the same media outlets and information. Not much point in wasting time on here trying to persuade each other of our different viewpoints.

All I want to point out is that the NHS, sick pay, pensions, overtime and shift payments, decent council housing and the comprehensive education system ( which allows a little class mobility)  were all Labour Party initiatives. They were hard fought for by the unions. When the last Labour Party were in power they spent the same as France and Germany on health spending, about 12% per cent of GDP. Under the tories we have seen total spending drop to just over 8 per cent of GDP. How can we have a world class health system when we spend so little on it? The tories really are running down the NHS in order to claim that the only way forward is to privatise it.

Nobody in their right mind wants to destroy capitalism and adopt socialism/communism. We have seen where that leads. But we don't have to have this vicious, neanderthal capitalism with food banks, homeless people dying in tents, and virtually no social care for the elderly. The nordic countries do capitalism much better.

Over and out.

Do you hunt? Jukel

[Nicepix 5,650]

17 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

I came across  an expression the other day..."confirmation bias". People believe what they want to believe no matter what the evidence. I think Johnstone is a moral cesspit and Farage a spiv. Tommy Robinson is another professional agitator/journalist, who like Farage makes a very good living out of gullible people's fears. Lots of you guys think the opposite even though we are exposed to the same media outlets and information. Not much point in wasting time on here trying to persuade each other of our different viewpoints.

All I want to point out is that the NHS, sick pay, pensions, overtime and shift payments, decent council housing and the comprehensive education system ( which allows a little class mobility)  were all Labour Party initiatives. They were hard fought for by the unions. When the last Labour Party were in power they spent the same as France and Germany on health spending, about 12% per cent of GDP. Under the tories we have seen total spending drop to just over 8 per cent of GDP. How can we have a world class health system when we spend so little on it? The tories really are running down the NHS in order to claim that the only way forward is to privatise it.

Nobody in their right mind wants to destroy capitalism and adopt socialism/communism. We have seen where that leads. But we don't have to have this vicious, neanderthal capitalism with food banks, homeless people dying in tents, and virtually no social care for the elderly. The nordic countries do capitalism much better.

Over and out.

Could that be the GDP was higher under the Tories and therefore the same amount spent on the health service appears to be a lower amount when compared against it?

I think that Corbyn's vision of Britain is pretty close to communism and way beyond socialism as we know it. And have you seen the amount Nordic countries levy in taxes against their citizens? No wonder they can spend so much on social welfare.

[jukel123 7,957]

26 minutes ago, Lenmcharristar said:

Do you hunt? Jukel

Yes but I hunt like a tory, I ignore the law when it suits me,especialy a bad law.

[jukel123 7,957]

31 minutes ago, Nicepix said:

Could that be the GDP was higher under the Tories and therefore the same amount spent on the health service appears to be a lower amount when compared against it?

I think that Corbyn's vision of Britain is pretty close to communism and way beyond socialism as we know it. And have you seen the amount Nordic countries levy in taxes against their citizens? No wonder they can spend so much on social welfare.

No,  I have just checked the stats. It is a political decision by the tories to starve the NHS. They hate the institution:  they think it smacks of sharing, cooperation  and working class solidarity. Like council houses they want to sell , to them it represents a dangerous ideology. They believe like Thatcher that " there's no such thing as society". It's every man for himself.They don't fund our schools properly either because, like the NHS they don't use them, they educate their kids privately and claim tax exemption for them in the bargain!.

I don't mind paying more tax as long as it is spent wisely, it means we don't have to step over the homeless and people get the medical and social care they need and deserve. I hope you receive a french pension  NP because ours is one of the worst in the developed world . 

[Nicepix 5,650]

No, I'll hopefully get the UK pension I have contributed towards for almost 40 years. I might also get a very small French pension based on the few years I've been self employed over here though.

French pensions are less than UK ones and the French have to contribute to their health service. It isn't free like the NHS. I don't know of any other country that has free health care so perhaps it isn't a good idea.  It is certainly being abused by free loaders and it must be said, by NHS staff creating long waiting lists to boost their private work. Basically the NHS is now unfit for purpose and needs overhauling. 

You will find homeless people in the Nordic countries you so admire. And a much higher rate of suicide. You cannot lay all the blame on people sleeping rough and using food banks on the government. There are many other issues such as personal debt caused by personal bad decisions. Addictions of all kinds also cause many of these problems as does mental health issues caused by those addictions.

It isn't just as simple as the Tories cause all our problems. A lot of the current problems were caused by Labour and the unions on the 1970's.

 

 

[Bobtheferret 1,248]

2 minutes ago, Nicepix said:

No, I'll hopefully get the UK pension I have contributed towards for almost 40 years. I might also get a very small French pension based on the few years I've been self employed over here though.

French pensions are less than UK ones and the French have to contribute to their health service. It isn't free like the NHS. I don't know of any other country that has free health care so perhaps it isn't a good idea.  It is certainly being abused by free loaders and it must be said, by NHS staff creating long waiting lists to boost their private work. Basically the NHS is now unfit for purpose and needs overhauling. 

You will find homeless people in the Nordic countries you so admire. And a much higher rate of suicide. You cannot lay all the blame on people sleeping rough and using food banks on the government. There are many other issues such as personal debt caused by personal bad decisions. Addictions of all kinds also cause many of these problems as does mental health issues caused by those addictions.

It isn't just as simple as the Tories cause all our problems. A lot of the current problems were caused by Labour and the unions on the 1970's.

 

 

Some excellent points made there Nicepix. 

On a wider note and slightly off topic the NHS absolutely isn’t working, the billions of pounds ploughed into (regardless of if the government is Tory or labour) aren’t enough to make the NHS work for the entire country. It needs major reforms and unfortunately no government has the balls to come out and say so they just throw more money at the problem hoping it will fix it. If nothing is done to properly change the system then the NHS will at some point come to a creaking halt and end up failing in tragic fashion despite the heroic frontline staff who often go above and beyond to help people. The problem is way beyond Tory or labour and party politics need to be put aside to solve the NHS issue. It may well be that the days of it being completely free at point of use have to end in order to save it but no politician would ever say so as it would be political suicide.