General election - who to vote for ?

[Nicepix 5,650]

23 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

1I think you are very unfair. You are presupposing what my opinions are. I have never called anybody bigoted for exercising their democratic right.  I fully accept flooding a country with 3 million immigrants with no extra infrastructure  is completely bonkers.I do know, that meddling illegally in another country's internal political procedures is definitely not diplomacy. I like  to see a fair playing field. I think you are very quick to defend the indefensible. When I pointed out that the UK pension was one of the lowest in the OECD. You pointed out that one needs 42 qualifying years to gain a 12 grand pension in France. You did not point out that until recently you needed 44 qualifying years to be awarded a 6 grand a year pension in the UK. I am not your enemy, I have opinions which differ from yours. Go and have a glass of beaujolais and be less personal in future.

As I have repeated;  there is no comparison between French and British pensions. The figures often quoted for French pensions are at the top end of a very wide scale. The people I live amongst don't get anywhere near that. They get roughly what I hope to get. In the UK it doesn't matter what your earnings were.  You get the same OAP whether you were on £10,000 a year or £1,000,000 a year. In France that matters a great deal.

You played the immigration card. A classic Remain ploy. The 'indefensible' as you put it are not guilty until proved otherwise. Over to you.

[jukel123 7,957]

I don't understand you NP. I'm not into point scoring and insisting on the last word. You win. I'm having a dram and going to bed. Good night.

[WILF 46,602]

8 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Good point fellow chuckle brother, but in the past Russian involvement only involved a few dodgy MPs an odd whore like Christine Keeler shagging the defence minister and a ruskie. Influencing the way people vote and think by the internet is a lot more sinister. Let's see what the report says. I may be a complete red herring ( no pun intended).

Here’s a question mate......

Which do you think is the most dangerous:

Supposed Russian involvement in elections

or

The fact Europeans are being outbred on their own continent to a point where we will be eventually wiped out 

(true by the way) 

[Nicepix 5,650]

2 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

I don't understand you NP. I'm not into point scoring and insisting on the last word. You win. I'm having a dram and going to bed. Good night.

I know that you don't understand. It comes out in your posts.

For instance you think that the biggest Russian coup was Christine Keeler. You've not heard of Burgess, Philby and McClean? You've not heard of Stalin's pact with Churchill and Roosevelt? But as Wilf points out; Russia cannot manage Russia let alone embark on world domination. Russia as been used as the bogeyman to allow America to arm itself to the teeth and the UK to tag along for as long as I can remember except for a brief period when Bin Laden and ISIS had a brief starring role. Our government need a bogeyman  to keep the public dependent on them and Russia is it.

[Lenmcharristar 9,727]

[jukel123 7,957]

12 hours ago, Nicepix said:

As I have repeated;  there is no comparison between French and British pensions. The figures often quoted for French pensions are at the top end of a very wide scale. The people I live amongst don't get anywhere near that. They get roughly what I hope to get. In the UK it doesn't matter what your earnings were.  You get the same OAP whether you were on £10,000 a year or £1,000,000 a year. In France that matters a great deal.

You played the immigration card. A classic Remain ploy. The 'indefensible' as you put it are not guilty until proved otherwise. Over to you.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/retirees-in-these-countries-receive-100-of-a-working-salary/

[tatsblisters 9,430]

1400 Reasons why I will never ever vote labour in my town of Rotherham and tbh if it was not for the decent Brexit party candidate a local lad this election might have been the first time I would have not wasted my time in voting.

[jukel123 7,957]

12 hours ago, Nicepix said:

I know that you don't understand. It comes out in your posts.

For instance you think that the biggest Russian coup was Christine Keeler. You've not heard of Burgess, Philby and McClean? You've not heard of Stalin's pact with Churchill and Roosevelt? But as Wilf points out; Russia cannot manage Russia let alone embark on world domination. Russia as been used as the bogeyman to allow America to arm itself to the teeth and the UK to tag along for as long as I can remember except for a brief period when Bin Laden and ISIS had a brief starring role. Our government need a bogeyman  to keep the public dependent on them and Russia is it.

No, I said I did not understand you.  I will ask you again.  Please keep the debate civil.

Edited November 23, 2019 by jukel123

[WILF 46,602]

39 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/retirees-in-these-countries-receive-100-of-a-working-salary/

There was obviously a cold hearted accountants calculation in changing the pension age in Britain.

They figured that X amount of people will die in those extra couple of years so they simply won’t have to pay them.....it really was as simple as that.

Now this may sound mad, but that isn’t that important......what’s important is why they are having to make that calculation and why the country is trillions of £££s in the shit.

Now, there can only be one answer......costs are out of control and when any party is making large promises with money they don’t have it’s bad !

Theres a hard truth, we can’t afford all the shit they waste money on and we can’t afford the “free” stuff either.......nobody from any camp wants to say it.

Why is that do you think mate ?

[Jonjon79 13,358]

Well, I got my postal vote form today - it's not much of a choice

 

Looks like we're on damage control again ffs

 

 

[Nicepix 5,650]

1 hour ago, jukel123 said:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/retirees-in-these-countries-receive-100-of-a-working-salary/

 

 

The above is taken from the same website that you posted.

As I have said more than once, the figures often bandied about are based on the maximum a person can achieve. In the UK almost everyone gets the same pension no matter what their wages were.So I would get a higher % of pension to past earnings than Lord Sugar's pension.  In France and other countries the actual pensions are dependent on how many months or quarters that the salary was sufficient to reach the required target, and what was the average salary over whatever number of years the average is taken at. For example; when I set up in pest control business here in France most of my work was concentrated in two of the four quarters used to calculate pension contributions. In the first two years until I sussed this I only reached the minimum income to trigger a pension entitlement in four of the eight quarters. Many agricultural workers and building workers paid hourly would suffer the same fate as their work is seasonal. I now spread my income better so as to trigger the pension entitlements for all quarters.

You need to look into things deeper. It is no good just grabbing a headline or the first thing that you can find on Google that appears to suit your purpose.

[jukel123 7,957]

3 hours ago, Nicepix said:

 

The above is taken from the same website that you posted.

As I have said more than once, the figures often bandied about are based on the maximum a person can achieve. In the UK almost everyone gets the same pension no matter what their wages were.So I would get a higher % of pension to past earnings than Lord Sugar's pension.  In France and other countries the actual pensions are dependent on how many months or quarters that the salary was sufficient to reach the required target, and what was the average salary over whatever number of years the average is taken at. For example; when I set up in pest control business here in France most of my work was concentrated in two of the four quarters used to calculate pension contributions. In the first two years until I sussed this I only reached the minimum income to trigger a pension entitlement in four of the eight quarters. Many agricultural workers and building workers paid hourly would suffer the same fate as their work is seasonal. I now spread my income better so as to trigger the pension entitlements for all quarters.

You need to look into things deeper. It is no good just grabbing a headline or the first thing that you can find on Google that appears to suit your purpose.

Yes you have made the qualifying rules very clear. I understand that jobs in France come with pension entitlements just as many public and private sector jobs in the uk. The state pension in the uk is a flat rate pension but is paid pro rata according to the number of qualifying years. You don't receive it as a freebie. It is also paid at 67 years of age, whereas in France the state pension age has recently gone up to 62.

Pensioner poverty in the uk is mainly caused by retirees who have little or no pension entitlement because they worked in jobs which provided no pension. This is scandalous. Most progressive countries have laws providing employers to include pension provision in their  contracts

The state pension in the UK would be worth double what it is worth today if Thatcher had not  fiddled the way the state pension is calculated. Annual increases in stare pension used to be calculated on the average annual increase in UK wages. She changed that formula to an annual increase based on the retail price index which is a measure of annual inflation. In 2010 tory chancellor George Osborne changed the rules again and tied the annual increase to the larger of the consumer prices index, or two and a half per cent or the increase in wages. Usually pensioners receive the cpi rate which on average is worth 1 per cent less than rpi. This year will be the first time the annual increase will be tied to the wages increase because wages have stalled so badly since 2010 and guess what? the tories are now talking about scrapping the above formulation and tying the annual increase to cpi only.

Osborne also linked all social security payments and public sector pensions to cpi. This has meant that the government has paid out billions less in state pensions and public sector pensions. Anybody's public sector pension is worth 9% less than it was in 2010. And will be worth 10 % less in ten year's time. This sleight of hand has gone down very well in the city where Osbourne has had 7 jobs created for him  (and counting) but not so well with millions of state and public sector pensioners who justly feel that they have been mugged. It is also mainly the reason why pensioners in the uk are amongst the poorest in the OECD. Just to be clear, by poorest I mean UK pensioners expendable income at the end of the month i.e  what they receive in their bank account.

I am not claiming pensioner poverty myself, I don't just rely on the state pension thank God, but that does not stop me feeling robbed along with every other uk pensioner who is in full receipt of the facts.

Edited November 23, 2019 by jukel123

[Nicepix 5,650]

All that is very well, but you were trying to make out that foreign and in particular French pensions are far better than the UK one. Just like you were making out thatFarage is a crook based on nothing but rumours and suspicion. The French pension can be greater, under the circumstances used in examples like the one you posted. But, the pensioners who live around here would feel lucky if they got what I'm hoping to receive. Despite working for the required 40 plus years, for many of the quarters used to qualify for a full pension they would not have earned enough. So, in effect they work until they are 70 or more and even then they don't get what a full UK pension would give.

When you quote stats like the one you posted you need to look at how the figures have come about. Because of the archaic labour laws in France many people are effectively self-employed as employers are loathe to take staff on full time. They don't get the perks that public servants and those working for  banks and insurance companies get. If you knew the truth you would see that the average pensioner in France receives less than the average pensioner in the UK. The figures you quoted are a hypothetical best case scenario. Not real life.

Same with Farage; if you have the evidence then please post it. But, don't just list loads of unsubstantiated allegations on the basis that there is no smoke without fire, because it doesn't prove anything except a desperation on your part to justify opinions that you have already formed without proof.

[WILF 46,602]

France would also be a much less attractive place to set up, do business and employ people than the UK as well.

But, it’s a nicer way of life so it’s swings and round a bouts.

[twobob 1,497]

52 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Yes you have made the qualifying rules very clear. I understand that jobs in France come with pension entitlements just as many public and private sector jobs in the uk. The state pension in the uk is a flat rate pension but is paid pro rata according to the number of qualifying years. You don't receive it as a freebie. It is also paid at 67 years of age, whereas in France the state pension age has recently gone up to 62.

Pensioner poverty in the uk is mainly caused by retirees who have little or no pension entitlement because they worked in jobs which provided no pension. This is scandalous. Most progressive countries have laws providing employers to include pension provision in their  contracts

The state pension in the UK would be worth double what it is worth today if Thatcher had not  fiddled the way the state pension is calculated. Annual increases in stare pension used to be calculated on the average annual increase in UK wages. She changed that formula to an annual increase based on the retail price index which is a measure of annual inflation. In 2010 tory chancellor George Osborne changed the rules again and tied the annual increase to the larger of the consumer prices index, or two and a half per cent or the increase in wages. Usually pensioners receive the cpi rate which on average is worth 1 per cent less than rpi. This year will be the first time the annual increase will be tied to the wages increase because wages have stalled so badly since 2010 and guess what? the tories are now talking about scrapping the above formulation and tying the annual increase to cpi only.

Osborne also linked all social security payments and public sector pensions to cpi. This has meant that the government has paid out billions less in state pensions and public sector pensions. Anybody's public sector pension is worth 9% less than it was in 2010. And will be worth 10 % less in ten year's time. This sleight of hand has gone down very well in the city where Osbourne has had 7 jobs created for him  (and counting) but not so well with millions of state and public sector pensioners who justly feel that they have been mugged. It is also mainly the reason why pensioners in the uk are amongst the poorest in the OECD. Just to be clear, by poorest I mean UK pensioners expendable income at the end of the month i.e  what they receive in their bank account.

I am not claiming pensioner poverty myself, I don't just rely on the state pension thank God, but that does not stop me feeling robbed along with every other uk pensioner who is in full receipt of the facts.

How many times have labour been in power since Thatcher why didn't they change it