General election - who to vote for ?

[Bobtheferret 1,258]

22 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Bob just because the poster states that it is real does not make it real. I've just read the manifesto none of that 'fake news' stuff is in it. In any case the pressure group "labour for free movement" is only a fringe Labour party pressure group it does not write Labour Party policy. I clicked on to "Labour for free movement" and that poster you show is not present there.

Agreed on fake news same as selling the NHS it’s just fake news, but read the manifesto and labour WILL keep free movement if they win and will keep us in a customs union whatever happens with brexit which will keep free movement. 

[Nicepix 5,650]

1 hour ago, jukel123 said:

Nicepix I think you must have been a good cop. A bad cop would ask Farage the following questions:

1) In 2008 why was he the only MEP to remain seated in The European Parliament  when Prince Charles delivered a speech encouraging international cooperation on climate change policies? Does he have "dirty industry" financial backing?

2) If he hates the European Parliament so much why has he taken £2 million in wages from them?

3) Can he name anything positive he contributed to the European Parliament?

4) Why did he fail to declare £205603 in gifts during his time in the European Parliament? Who gave him these gifts? Why?

5) Why does he refuse to publish his tax returns?

6) After speaking so vociferously about tax dodgers, why did he set up "The Farage Family Educational Trust" in the Isle of Man and then, when it was discovered, close it immediately?

7) Has he any comment on the fact that the pilot who was at the controls of an aircraft in which was travelling and then crashed, threatened to kill Farage and was found dead at home a couple of years later?

(9) Which individuals or organisations paid him £450000 for "travel and accommodation"  in the years 2016 /17?

10) What did he know of the activities of George Cotterell his former office manager who was found guilty of money laundering, fraud and extortion?

11) Why does the tory party refuse to do deals with him because they consider him 'not a fit and proper person who should never be allowed  near government'?  ( I admit that's rich coming from them)

12) What is his exact relationship with Donald Trump?

13) What is his exact relationship with Russia?

15) Why has the FBI declared him a person of interest in their enquiries into Russian involvement in the US election?

16) What is his relationship with Aarron Banks? Where did Banks get £7 million pounds from to fund his Brexit strategy? 

17) Why, in 2013 did he urge the British government to accept more Syrian refugees and then use  a totally misleading photograph of Syrian asylum seekers and suggest they were EU migrants?

18) Why does he instantly hang up the phone when journalist Carol Calderon rings his radio show with questions about his relationship with Banks and the Russians?

Whenever I see or hear Farage my "bad cop", my 'wrongundar' shouts he's a "wrong un" in the same class as Oswald Mosely, and Tommy Robinson. He's a spiv, a liar and a chancer. Yet another member of the elite who assures us he hates elites, wants to get rid of them, and replace them with........... who else? His f***ing self!

 

Frankly I think that you are clutching at straws in a desperation to undermine Farage.I mean; some of these questions; #'s 1, 7, 10 - 15 are just desperation, 2 & 3 should be pretty well obvious to anybody and the rest, you have any evidence to back up your allegations and insinuations then why not post it? 

[DIDO.1 22,845]

33 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Bob just because the poster states that it is real does not make it real. I've just read the manifesto none of that 'fake news' stuff is in it. In any case the pressure group "labour for free movement" is only a fringe Labour party pressure group it does not write Labour Party policy. I clicked on to "Labour for free movement" and that poster you show is not present there.

I have heard every point on there either promised or a senior Labour politition has said they believed in it or wanted it over the last few months. If I could be arsed I'd trawl the Internet looking for actual quotes or statements. 

Or you really trying to convince people corbyn and abbot haven't recently commented on votes for migrants and kids and supporting and increasing freedom of movement? Do I really need to search for evidence for you?

Tell me that's not what they believe in and I'll donate £50 to a left wing pressure group

[jukel123 8,663]

4 minutes ago, Bobtheferret said:

Agreed on fake news same as selling the NHS it’s just fake news, but read the manifesto and labour WILL keep free movement if they win and will keep us in a customs union whatever happens with brexit which will keep free movement. 

Agreed free movement will stay if there is a second referendum and remain wins, but that's always been part of the deal for remaining in the EU. IMO that's at the heart of the EU argument.

[jukel123 8,663]

Dido I don't know what Corbyn and Abbot have said, I'm not a Labour Party member.  However anybody legally living here, who has citizenship should surely be entitled to a vote. If by kids you mean sixteen year olds, then, again I would agree they should be given the vote. I don't see how Corbyn or Abbot could support free movement if and when brexit finally happens. That would be impossible. Does that qualify for the fifty quid?

[jukel123 8,663]

29 minutes ago, Nicepix said:

Frankly I think that you are clutching at straws in a desperation to undermine Farage.I mean; some of these questions; #'s 1, 7, 10 - 15 are just desperation, 2 & 3 should be pretty well obvious to anybody and the rest, you have any evidence to back up your allegations and insinuations then why not post it? 

NP they are not my allegations or insinuations, they are all in the public domain. I think there are legitimate concerns about the man whatever one's political beliefs. I was surprised you dismissed the FBI's interest in him. Concern about Russia's involvement in both brexit and the US election is an ongoing, real and genuine concern felt by supporters  of true democracy on both sides of the Atlantic. The Russians have a vested interest in the UK leaving the EU, Putin is an on record supporting brexit.  Farage worries me, he's dodgy. Lots of people are saying 'move along, there's nothing to see here'. But I think eventually the truth will out about him. I don't generally subscribe to conspiracy theories but I think in his case there's a lot more than meets the eye.  He's not the bloke he pretends to be a guy you could enjoy a pint with, there's a lot of  serious ;baggage' with that man in my  opinion.

[DIDO.1 22,845]

25 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Dido I don't know what Corbyn and Abbot have said, I'm not a Labour Party member.  However anybody legally living here, who has citizenship should surely be entitled to a vote. If by kids you mean sixteen year olds, then, again I would agree they should be given the vote. I don't see how Corbyn or Abbot could support free movement if and when brexit finally happens. That would be impossible. Does that qualify for the fifty quid?

If you have citizenship you can vote. Corbyn, abbot and others have said they want to extend that to anyone who's here. 

I don't think 16 year old should vote, the only reason the left believe they should is because they tend to vote for left wing ideals.....thus changes the minute they get a job, pay tax and have kids to worry about. 

[Nicepix 5,650]

3 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

NP they are not my allegations or insinuations, they are all in the public domain. I think there are legitimate concerns about the man whatever one's political beliefs. I was surprised you dismissed the FBI's interest in him. Concern about Russia's involvement in both brexit and the US election is an ongoing, real and genuine concern felt by supporters  of true democracy on both sides of the Atlantic. The Russians have a vested interest in the UK leaving the EU, Putin is an on record supporting brexit.  Farage worries me, he's dodgy. Lots of people are saying 'move along, there's nothing to see here'. But I think eventually the truth will out about him. I don't generally subscribe to conspiracy theories but I think in his case there's a lot more than meets the eye.  He's not the bloke he pretends to be a guy you could enjoy a pint with, there's a lot of  serious ;baggage' with that man in my  opinion.

What implications do you draw from "the FBI are interested in him?" If he was a suspect he would have been arrested, deported and questioned. He hasn't. Concern about Russian involvement? Who is concerned? I grew up in a time when Russia was behind everything and they were supposed to be light years ahead of the Yanks and us yet all they could muster to sell to us were Zenith cameras and Lada cars. It is all make believe!

One of the ways to tell that someone hasn't anything of proof against a person are multiple allegations and questions many of which are pathetic. If someone had anything concrete against Farage, and let's be honest; the British press have left no stones unturned ad the best they have come up with is that he had a German wife,  it would be published.

I repeat; if you have something concrete then by all means post it. At the moment all you have are playground rumours.

[jukel123 8,663]

34 minutes ago, Nicepix said:

What implications do you draw from "the FBI are interested in him?" If he was a suspect he would have been arrested, deported and questioned. He hasn't. Concern about Russian involvement? Who is concerned? I grew up in a time when Russia was behind everything and they were supposed to be light years ahead of the Yanks and us yet all they could muster to sell to us were Zenith cameras and Lada cars. It is all make believe!

One of the ways to tell that someone hasn't anything of proof against a person are multiple allegations and questions many of which are pathetic. If someone had anything concrete against Farage, and let's be honest; the British press have left no stones unturned ad the best they have come up with is that he had a German wife,  it would be published.

I repeat; if you have something concrete then by all means post it. At the moment all you have are playground rumours.

I hope you are right NP. It will be interesting to peruse the report into Russian involvement in Brexit which was due to be published in October but which has  been withheld from the British public until after the election.

[Nicepix 5,650]

1 hour ago, jukel123 said:

Agreed free movement will stay if there is a second referendum and remain wins, but that's always been part of the deal for remaining in the EU. IMO that's at the heart of the EU argument.

It is only at the heart of the EU argument because it suits the Remain camp to make out that all Brexiteers are racist bigots who are too thick to realise how good the EU is. I meet loads of people in my work and obviously Brexit comes up in conversation. Almost all of those who voted Remain did so for personal reasons. They and I are likely be worse off if Brexit happens and will suffer some negative changes. I accept that. But none of them realise the negative impact that being in the EU has on the UK in general. Not one of them knew that the total receipts that the EU get from the UK totals around €40 billion. Everyone has swallowed the 'official'  7 - 8 billion figure. No one knows where that money actually goes. So it is easier to smugly brand all Brexiteers as stupid bigots and pretend that they have the high moral ground.

And even if Russia has in some way shown support for Brexit, so what? That is what countries do. It is called diplomacy and there is no country other than the USA that has meddled in other country's politics than the UK. The EU have meddled in this decision, so have Macron and Varadkar. But they are meddling to suit your side so that doesn't count.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Nicepix

[jukel123 8,663]

1I think you are very unfair. You are presupposing what my opinions are. I have never called anybody bigoted for exercising their democratic right.  I fully accept flooding a country with 3 million immigrants with no extra infrastructure  is completely bonkers.I do know, that meddling illegally in another country's internal political procedures is definitely not diplomacy. I like  to see a fair playing field. I think you are very quick to defend the indefensible. When I pointed out that the UK pension was one of the lowest in the OECD. You pointed out that one needs 42 qualifying years to gain a 12 grand pension in France. You did not point out that until recently you needed 44 qualifying years to be awarded a 6 grand a year pension in the UK. I am not your enemy, I have opinions which differ from yours. Go and have a glass of beaujolais and be less personal in future.

[jukel123 8,663]

And further..... if Wilf and myself can reach a "  chuckle brothers" relationship on here I am sure there is hope for you NP.

[WILF 47,630]

Oh come on lads, you are cleverer than this......

Russia has been meddling in international politics since the revolution as have every major country.

The Labour Party and the Tory party and all the unions and gentleman’s clubs were riddled with KGB in the 60s, 70 and early 80s.......

This is absolutely no shock revelation.....in fact it isn’t even worth a mention !

[jukel123 8,663]

Good point fellow chuckle brother, but in the past Russian involvement only involved a few dodgy MPs an odd whore like Christine Keeler shagging the defence minister and a ruskie. Influencing the way people vote and think by the internet is a lot more sinister. Let's see what the report says. I may be a complete red herring ( no pun intended).

[WILF 47,630]

Just to be clear......

Russia is so gargantuan that it can’t even run itself........never mind all this world domination shit !

Its literally so massive that it can’t build towns in certain places because they are just too remote and it’s too expensive.......in super power terms, it hasn’t got a penny to scratch its arse with.

2 American carrier groups would wipe the Russian military off the face of the planet and Russia knows it.......the Americans have 6 carrier groups by the way !! 
 

It’s all f***ing smoke and mirrors boys to divert your attention from things that are much closer to home !