Some interesting hunting related science...

[Born Hunter 17,798]

1 hour ago, WILF said:

I think (in reference to your spear fishing comment) it would feel no more pain than a fallow when you shot it.

In nature, anything killing or catching anything else will involve pain.....after all pain is designed to look after you and that must include not being killed or wounded.

We're on the same page then mate.

But just for context, for a long while folks didn't believe that. In fact back in the bad old days they would dissect live dogs with absolutely no ethical doubts as even while the dog screamed in pain and visibly demonstrated extreme trauma they believed that it was merely a programmed reaction from an essentially non sentient being. The same view regarding fish has been prevalent untill very recently.

Whether a fish's experience of suffering is the same as ours is hard to determine as existence is subjective but they seem to undergo the same physiological responses that we do.

In fact, slightly tangential, but scientists don't know why we experience emotion at all! Behaviour can and usually is programmed into us like machines, why there is an associated emotion, like pain, is currently a mystery!

[Born Hunter 17,798]

1 minute ago, W. Katchum said:

It’s the soul

Its something and that may well eventually be termed the soul.

[shaaark 10,905]

kin el fellas

[Stoney100 1,179]

@Born Hunter bit off topic if but do you have much experience in refining precious metals? 

 

[shaaark 10,905]

20 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

It’s all good pal. God gave us dominion over the animals

Who was that irish twonk on here that used to babble all that codswallop?

[Born Hunter 17,798]

4 minutes ago, Stoney100 said:

@Born Hunter bit off topic if but do you have much experience in refining precious metals? 

 

None at all mate. That would be categorised as ‘useful knowledge’. I seem to specialise in ‘random useless knowledge’! Haha

[Stoney100 1,179]

Just now, Born Hunter said:

None at all mate. That would be categorised as ‘useful knowledge’. I seem to specialise in ‘random useless knowledge’! Haha

Lol fair enough mate!

[jukel123 8,537]

6 hours ago, Born Hunter said:

A couple of things I've come across this week that have made me question what I thought I knew.

First off that the father contributes more to the offspring than the mother. That is, a study on mice showed that although mother and father contribute an equal proportion of nuclear DNA to their offspring, the fathers genes were seen to dominate significantly in the expression of those genes.

This has obvious potential implication on the breeding of working animals. Perhaps not so much in practice as in understanding.

 

Secondly, that fish do indeed experience pain, or at least suffering.

I remembered being told as a kid that fish cant feel pain and was a bit sceptical even then. A few years ago I quickly looked this up and got the usual "fish don't have the developed nervous system to feel pain". But I was sent this link last night off the back of the sort of nonsense discussions I get into with people. 

 

Interesting research, but there's a bit of a leap to say from the results of one study that ' the same is true in all mammals'. I don't think they have demonstrated that. I remember reading about 'the strange male' phenomenon in mice. Basically if a pregnant mouse is separated from her mate and introduced to a new mate , she will often abort/absorb her unborn offspring and then immediately become pregnant to her new mate. It's been demonstrated that mice exhibit that behaviour but other species do not. Not as far as I know at any rate.

However I know from reading Keith Erlandson's book on training spaniels that there exists, at least in his opinion, "prepotent" stud dogs. ( he really did know a thing or two about training spaniels) i.e. dogs which throw desirable pups to a good percentage of bitches. The same is  thought to be true in greyhounds. I don't know if there are academic studies to prove this though.

As for fish feeling pain, subjective I know, but I have always felt this to be true. A foul hooked salmon goes berserk , you really know it's foul hooked because it pulls like fury on the rod. A mouth hooked fish cannot produce so much strain on the rod because it is handicapped, in my view, by the sensitivity of its mouth. It's the same thing as controlling a nasty bull with pressure on a nose ring. A child can lead a bull by its  nose ring because the nose is so sensitive. 

I believe lower forms of life can feel pain. Maybe I'm guilty of anthropomorphism, but  an earthworm  obviously writhes in agony when it is exposed to  harsh sunlight or placed on a hook. To me it's not a great leap of cross species empathy....... it is obviously f****n painful for the critter!

[shaaark 10,905]

10 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

You done it now buddy @Francie

Nah I'm sure it was kev summin or other lol.

Me, socks and a couple of others had some 'banter' with him over a couple of year round pest control issues lol

Edited September 26, 2019 by shaaark

[shaaark 10,905]

2 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

You just said what I wanted to

 

 

stay in school kids

[Born Hunter 17,798]

6 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Interesting research, but there's a bit of a leap to say from the results of one study that ' the same is true in all mammals'. I don't think they have demonstrated that. I remember reading about 'the strange male' phenomenon in mice. Basically if a pregnant mouse is separated from her mate and introduced to a new mate , she will often abort/absorb her unborn offspring and then immediately become pregnant to her new mate. It's been demonstrated that mice exhibit that behaviour but other species do not. Not as far as I know at any rate.

However I know from reading Keith Erlandson's book on training spaniels that there exists, at least in his opinion, "prepotent" stud dogs. ( he really did know a thing or two about training spaniels) i.e. dogs which throw desirable pups to a good percentage of bitches. The same is  thought to be true in greyhounds. I don't know if there are academic studies to prove this though.

As for fish feeling pain, subjective I know, but I have always felt this to be true. A foul hooked salmon goes berserk , you really know it's foul hooked because it pulls like fury on the rod. A mouth hooked fish cannot produce so much strain on the rod because it is handicapped, in my view, by the sensitivity of its mouth. It's the same thing as controlling a nasty bull with pressure on a nose ring. A child can lead a bull by its  nose ring because the nose is so sensitive. 

I believe lower forms of life can feel pain. Maybe I'm guilty of anthropomorphism, but  an earthworm  obviously writhes in agony when it is exposed to  harsh sunlight or placed on a hook. To me it's not a great leap of cross species empathy....... it is obviously f****n painful for the critter!

Agree entirely! Unless the fundamental cause of the paternal dominance in gene expression is understood and proven then it can’t legitimately be applied to any other species. I don’t know enough about genetics to question that.

[Francie 6,368]

24 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

You done it now buddy @Francie

Get the whip out, ten lashes required

[shaaark 10,905]

8 minutes ago, Francie said:

Get the whip out, ten lashes required

 

5 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

He jist confused an lost pal. Some day somebody will show him the way

You heathens can keep the whips and confusion to yourselves!

[Francie 6,368]

10 minutes ago, shaaark said:

 

You heathens can keep the whips and confusion to yourselves!

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

15 hours ago, Born Hunter said:

Fair enough mate but I don’t believe that anymore. Too much evidence to suggest they do.

There was absolutely f**k all evidence of it in that arricle