Hard men...

[Saltmoon 2,208]

23 minutes ago, Lenmcharristar said:

Hard men,  Marciano, foreman, Frazier, Morrison, Lewis, Ali, Dempsey, Johnston, John l Sullivan etc etc they were hard men as in physically fighting tough and no bar brawler is even gona last 10 seconds with any of them in their time. As said on here before your street hardman looks good fighting men who don’t fight back, but put him in with a true highly trainer professional fighter and he will get found out, being hard and having balls is 2 different things

Very very true lad I know biggest balls going but not hard like talked about but by God he will give it his best. But mentally shot very weak in his mind. Like has been said there are different types of "hard". I know a few lads that people class as real tough men but there one punch Harry's if they can't take you out with that one punch there bollocks will shrink into nothing 

[Lenmcharristar 9,796]

2 minutes ago, Saltmoon said:

Very very true lad I know biggest balls going but not hard like talked about but by God he will give it his best. But mentally shot very weak in his mind. Like has been said there are different types of "hard". I know a few lads that people class as real tough men but there one punch Harry's if they can't take you out with that one punch there bollocks will shrink into nothing 

That’s it, that millwall fella that got stuck into the paki Muslim terrorists on London Bridge that day, he prob wasn’t a hard c u n t but he must walk with a wheel barrow to carry his balls about town, that to me was facing the danger head on knowing full well he could end up as halal, there’s a wide range of bravery/ courage not to be confused with the average hard man. To me a fighting hard man is not the man who has a zero on his record but the type of man that you give an absolute hiding too and he still keeps getting up and coming back until he wins or gets totally kod, like the fights we’ve seen benn/ mcclellend , foreman/Morrison. Marciano/Walcott  Ali/norton these fights stick on my mind for the toughness given and faced by both opponents and they kept going until the final bell or a lost was involved, there’s plenty of others too, these fighters are professional trained and conditioned for the job and not supping beers down the local boozer bashing piss heads or bar flies. Then you have the battle hardened types that’s been knocked down more times than audley Harrison and keep on going like after ww2 how many knew their grannies and grandads to be mentally tough?  I know mine were for they had seen some of the very worst of humanity and also the very best and were tough as old boots where nothing ever really bothered them 

[Greyman 28,441]

Got a few health issues that cause me to trip up quite a bit don’t really bother me that much and I,m a master at tuck and roll, but this morning I took a tumble whilst out with the dogs tucked and rolled straight through the hedge full of b rambles and stingers, now that’s tough

[gnasher16 30,121]

The Millwall fan is a good shout he showed immense spirit and fortitude...im sure a massive rush of adrenaline didnt hurt either.

But the others mentioned like boxers and explorers i completely disagree i dont see anything " hard " about being in positions a - of your own choosing....b - that you are being paid for....and c - that you are already good at....sport is sport.

 

[Lenmcharristar 9,796]

10 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

The Millwall fan is a good shout he showed immense spirit and fortitude...im sure a massive rush of adrenaline didnt hurt either.

But the others mentioned like boxers and explorers i completely disagree i dont see anything " hard " about being in positions a - of your own choosing....b - that you are being paid for....and c - that you are already good at....sport is sport.

 

Yes sport is sport but no matter how they try to be hard, there’s no way Mervyn king or ted hankey is gona beat joe calzaghe in a fight or is Rory mcilroy gona beat big Z in power lifting and like wise, do you think AJ showed toughness in his last fight? I don’t I seen the hardness in Ruiz as he got up off the floor and decked AJ a few times until AJ quit fighters are trained to be harder than most other folk in sport. Fighting sports are supposed to be the pinnacle of toughness for humans to be involved in, man against man but in other sports mental toughness can be more valuable than physical toughness like in darts, snooker etc

[Jobi 387]

34 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

The Millwall fan is a good shout he showed immense spirit and fortitude...im sure a massive rush of adrenaline didnt hurt either.

But the others mentioned like boxers and explorers i completely disagree i dont see anything " hard " about being in positions a - of your own choosing....b - that you are being paid for....and c - that you are already good at....sport is sport.

 

I agree, the real courageous folk are those that are scared stiff of a situation yet find the fortitude to battle their way through it. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Jobi

[Born Hunter 17,763]

50 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

But the others mentioned like boxers and explorers i completely disagree i dont see anything " hard " about being in positions a - of your own choosing....b - that you are being paid for....and c - that you are already good at....sport is sport.

 

I wonder if I don't understand the definition of 'hard' or if you see it as synonymous with 'courage'. 

To me, 'hardness' is the ability to endure. There are obviously many dimensions to that, some good examples you have already given. But is a man who can endure hardship with ease, because nature privileged him with being built for it, less 'hard' than a man who suffered but still endured? To me he's just as hard.

However I think we would both agree that courage can only be displayed in the presence of fear. A man who has been privileged by nature to feel little fear, or even feel comfortable, in a given situation cannot be described as courageous as the man who has not.

I guess what I'm getting at is does the quality of hardness require emotional suffering in the same way that courage requires fear? Can a man be considered hard if he is emotionally insensitive to suffering but his body still goes through the physical? If hardness is the ability to endure then surely the man who is less sensitive to it is harder? 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Born Hunter

[Saltmoon 2,208]

58 minutes ago, Greyman said:

Got a few health issues that cause me to trip up quite a bit don’t really bother me that much and I,m a master at tuck and roll, but this morning I took a tumble whilst out with the dogs tucked and rolled straight through the hedge full of b rambles and stingers, now that’s tough

Years ago me and some pals nicked a wheely bin cut it in half down the length and used it being towed behind a car when it came to my turn they convinced me to try and jump the speed bump....... as you can imagine this did NOT go to plan let go of the rope at about 30mph went way off to the right ended up in loads of stingers all over my back and arms swelled right up almost double and to top it all off cut my ass up real bad on the edge of the tarmac right down the crack the lot. Alot of pain later we decided not the hardest but by far the most stupid/ bravest to give it a go  

 

There was no second attempt at the speed bump!! 

[Jobi 387]

44 minutes ago, Lenmcharristar said:

Yes sport is sport but no matter how they try to be hard, there’s no way Mervyn king or ted hankey is gona beat joe calzaghe in a fight or is Rory mcilroy gona beat big Z in power lifting and like wise, do you think AJ showed toughness in his last fight? I don’t I seen the hardness in Ruiz as he got up off the floor and decked AJ a few times until AJ quit fighters are trained to be harder than most other folk in sport. Fighting sports are supposed to be the pinnacle of toughness for humans to be involved in, man against man but in other sports mental toughness can be more valuable than physical toughness like in darts, snooker etc

Mental toughness is just as important in fighting as physical toughness. Look at Mike Tyson, he showed great heart in his defeats to Douglas, Holyfield 1 and Lewis but you could see his resilience fade with each fight until by the end he was screaming out in pain when having a cut tended to. He had the gameness beat out of him. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Jobi

[Astanley 11,568]

19 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

I wonder if I don't understand the definition of 'hard' or if you see it as synonymous with 'courage'. 

To me, 'hardness' is the ability to endure. There are obviously many dimensions to that, some good examples you have already given. But is a man who can endure hardship with ease, because nature privileged him with being built for it, less 'hard' than a man who suffered but still endured? To me he's just as hard.

However I think we would both agree that courage can only be displayed in the presence of fear. A man who has been privileged by nature to feel little fear, or even feel comfortable, in a given situation cannot be described as courageous as the man who has not.

I guess what I'm getting at is does the quality of hardness require emotional suffering in the same way that courage requires fear? Can a man be considered hard if he is emotionally insensitive to suffering but his body still goes through the physical? If hardness is the ability to endure then surely the man who is less sensitive to it is harder? 

There's the rub ,it's a question of semantics ,one man's definition of "hard " can be at odds with another man's .. "Hard " is just too narrow a term ,

[Jobi 387]

34 minutes ago, Astanley said:

There's the rub ,it's a question of semantics ,one man's definition of "hard " can be at odds with another man's .. "Hard " is just too narrow a term ,

Resilient a better word Stan? 

[gnasher16 30,121]

1 hour ago, Lenmcharristar said:

Yes sport is sport but no matter how they try to be hard, there’s no way Mervyn king or ted hankey is gona beat joe calzaghe in a fight or is Rory mcilroy gona beat big Z in power lifting and like wise, do you think AJ showed toughness in his last fight? I don’t I seen the hardness in Ruiz as he got up off the floor and decked AJ a few times until AJ quit fighters are trained to be harder than most other folk in sport. Fighting sports are supposed to be the pinnacle of toughness for humans to be involved in, man against man but in other sports mental toughness can be more valuable than physical toughness like in darts, snooker etc

You said " fighters are trained to be harder than most other folk in sport "....which is exactly why you cant use sports people as a guage to " being hard ".....they have to be hard,its what they do......but its just sport,they choose to be there.

[gnasher16 30,121]

1 hour ago, Born Hunter said:

I wonder if I don't understand the definition of 'hard' or if you see it as synonymous with 'courage'. 

To me, 'hardness' is the ability to endure. There are obviously many dimensions to that, some good examples you have already given. But is a man who can endure hardship with ease, because nature privileged him with being built for it, less 'hard' than a man who suffered but still endured? To me he's just as hard.

However I think we would both agree that courage can only be displayed in the presence of fear. A man who has been privileged by nature to feel little fear, or even feel comfortable, in a given situation cannot be described as courageous as the man who has not.

I guess what I'm getting at is does the quality of hardness require emotional suffering in the same way that courage requires fear? Can a man be considered hard if he is emotionally insensitive to suffering but his body still goes through the physical? If hardness is the ability to endure then surely the man who is less sensitive to it is harder? 

Its just such a terrible description...." hard "....im just talking in the context that i think its being used in this topic.

I agree its the ability to endure.....but obviously endurance is only a small part.....even if a man can endure suffering,can he overcome it.....its a little bit like gameness in a physical fight anyone can stand there and get there head beaten in that doesnt show gameness it just shows mettle and endurance......when he not just takes the beating but also tries to be the victor that for me is gameness.....hence i like the expression " a game dog always thinks he is winning "

By less sensitive to it do you mean doesnt have a prerequisite for it,not used to it,no experience of it etc.....or that its just not in their dna so to speak.....if 2 people fight to the death and ones natural fight or flight mechanism is to fight and the others is flight then naturally the one who wanted to f**k off was the braver man ....if indeed thats what you mean.

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by gnasher16

[Lenmcharristar 9,796]

1 hour ago, Jobi said:

Mental toughness is just as important in fighting as physical toughness. Look at Mike Tyson, he showed great heart in his defeats to Douglas, Holyfield 1 and Lewis but you could see his resilience fade with each fight until by the end he was screaming out in pain when having a cut tended to. He had the gameness beat out of him. 

I know that and that’s why pro fighters are probably the hardest out of us mere mortals as in fighting hardness, but comparing them to other sports where mental toughness is needed more than physical is totally different hence why professional fighters are at the pinnacle of it where your average pub brawler isnt

[gnasher16 30,121]

5 minutes ago, Lenmcharristar said:

I know that and that’s why pro fighters are probably the hardest out of us mere mortals as in fighting hardness, but comparing them to other sports where mental toughness is needed more than physical is totally different hence why professional fighters are at the pinnacle of it where your average pub brawler isnt

Its only sporting hardness though Len.....Mike Tyson might shit himself and run for the hills if he had to run into a burning building,or bring kids up alone,or see out a long prison sentance and stay sane.....i just think sport is the wrong place to look for the type of words we are using.