Looking for good advice concerning all-round rifle

[walshie 2,804]

Member question: Do I want a 308 or a 30-06?

Half the replies - 308

Other half - 30-06

Alsone - 300WM. 

[Ted Newgent 4,896]

53 minutes ago, walshie said:

Member question: Do I want a 308 or a 30-06?

Half the replies - 308

Other half - 30-06

Alsone - 300WM. 

Buy all three

and have the 338laupa on xmas list

[Underdog 2,337]

2 hours ago, walshie said:

Member question: Do I want a 308 or a 30-06?

Half the replies - 308

Other half - 30-06

Alsone - 300WM. 

[Alsone 789]

5 hours ago, walshie said:

Member question: Do I want a 308 or a 30-06?

Half the replies - 308

Other half - 30-06

Alsone - 300WM. 

300 wm is a very well respected and heavily used calibre against larger prey. It's also used for bear hunting one of the OP's possible uses, although some prefer larger calibres against large bears such as Grizzly. 

It's ranked the number 1 most heavily used 30 calibre magnum cartridge in the US. It's known for being flat shooting and it's long range accuracy. It's been used by both military, police and competition shooters. It's regularly used in the US to take everything from boar to deer, to Elk, to Bear to African Game, and some the smaller species of the forgoing and Coyotes at ranges of 1,000yds+.

It's very under rated in the UK, but then again, we have very few prey that really justify it vs 308 etc. It may be too much gun for the OP close up in the forest, then again if facing a bear I know which I'd rather have in my hand.  It's like all calibre comparisons, horses for courses. The OP is probably fine with .308 or .30-06, but he shouldn't necessarily write off .300wm depending on circumstances. 

Some good advice above - ask the locals what they use.

Whole dialogue about 300wm here:
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Winchester_Magnum


 

[walshie 2,804]

34 minutes ago, Alsone said:

300 wm is a very well respected and heavily used calibre against larger prey. It's also used for bear hunting one of the OP's possible uses, although some prefer larger calibres against large bears such as Grizzly. 

It's ranked the number 1 most heavily used 30 calibre magnum cartridge in the US. It's known for being flat shooting and it's long range accuracy. It's been used by both military, police and competition shooters. It's regularly used in the US to take everything from boar to deer, to Elk, to Bear to African Game, and some the smaller species of the forgoing and Coyotes at ranges of 1,000yds+.

It's very under rated in the UK, but then again, we have very few prey that really justify it vs 308 etc. It may be too much gun for the OP close up in the forest, then again if facing a bear I know which I'd rather have in my hand.  It's like all calibre comparisons, horses for courses. The OP is probably fine with .308 or .30-06, but he shouldn't necessarily write off .300wm depending on circumstances. 

Some good advice above - ask the locals what they use.

Whole dialogue about 300wm here:
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Winchester_Magnum


 

Serious question, if he'd asked if he should choose a 30-06 or a 300WM, would you have plucked yet another calibre out of the air? I'm a fan of 300WM, but that isn't what he asked is all I'm saying.

Wikipedia is not always your friend. 

[Underdog 2,337]

I love 300winmag too but the op never inquired of it and just for the record Alsone, 300 win mag kills large game no differently than the cartridges inquired about by the OP!

[Max Caysey 6]

Again thank you for your replies.

 

14 hours ago, Deker said:

As above, what with the Laws and the quarry it seems a more local chat would be productive, what does everyone else use in your country?

All the riffle hunters I know all own multiple rifles. Ranging from 243 up to 9.3x63... And one who has a 458Win.mag for big game hunting in Africa. When I have talked to them, they pretty much say, buy multiple cheap rifles. I know in Denmark the 6.5x55 is a real popular deer cartridge.

However, I get more enjoyment out of sports and hunting, when I have the "right" equipment in my hand. I very much go for certain high quality brands and models. Not that I'm snobbish, but I do very much care about what brands I do use. Same in golf, where I only play Titleist if that tells you anything.. Also, I know I wont be able to afford more than one really nice rifle, which I would be much happier taking out that multiple cheap/poor quality rifles. That's why I'm looking to get as much out of a single rifle and understand the pros and cons of different options.

Now the "easy" choice would just to go with the 30.06, but If its a poor fit for a 20" barrel, kicks too much, has an oversized muzzle flash, or destroys too much meat when shooting roe, then maybe its not a good option. Legally, the .308W comply with all north European game, however the muzzle velocity loss from a 20" vs 24" (which most ballistics I've seen run on), might mean that the range at which I can safely shoot some of the larger deer might be impaired - which again talks to using the 30.06. This is simply due to the around 200j loss from 24" to 20" rifle...

I know I'm probably overthinking it way to much... I tend to do that sometime, but I just want to make as informed decision as possible - and when ever I do go and talk to locals, the more I know, the better questions I'm able to ask!

So yes, I'm probably looking for that perfect combination... and I'm probably overthinking it way too much...

 

Thanks again!

[Ted Newgent 4,896]

13 minutes ago, Max Caysey said:

Again thank you for your replies.

 

All the riffle hunters I know all own multiple rifles. Ranging from 243 up to 9.3x63... And one who has a 458Win.mag for big game hunting in Africa. When I have talked to them, they pretty much say, buy multiple cheap rifles. I know in Denmark the 6.5x55 is a real popular deer cartridge.

However, I get more enjoyment out of sports and hunting, when I have the "right" equipment in my hand. I very much go for certain high quality brands and models. Not that I'm snobbish, but I do very much care about what brands I do use. Same in golf, where I only play Titleist if that tells you anything.. Also, I know I wont be able to afford more than one really nice rifle, which I would be much happier taking out that multiple cheap/poor quality rifles. That's why I'm looking to get as much out of a single rifle and understand the pros and cons of different options.

Now the "easy" choice would just to go with the 30.06, but If its a poor fit for a 20" barrel, kicks too much, has an oversized muzzle flash, or destroys too much meat when shooting roe, then maybe its not a good option. Legally, the .308W comply with all north European game, however the muzzle velocity loss from a 20" vs 24" (which most ballistics I've seen run on), might mean that the range at which I can safely shoot some of the larger deer might be impaired - which again talks to using the 30.06. This is simply due to the around 200j loss from 24" to 20" rifle...

I know I'm probably overthinking it way to much... I tend to do that sometime, but I just want to make as informed decision as possible - and when ever I do go and talk to locals, the more I know, the better questions I'm able to ask!

So yes, I'm probably looking for that perfect combination... and I'm probably overthinking it way too much...

 

Thanks again!

you state you know a few rifle hunters,at what distances are they averagely killing deer at?

as for meat loss,you will lose some,that how it is,unless you take neck/head shots or gut shots (sarcasm.... please dont)

 

when you get around to buying a rifle and go hunting,please please post back

[gazjon5 854]

I would say for a first rifle stay away from the 300wm, as you may find the recoil to much and develope bad habits. Sure it is a great calibre but unless you are expecting long range and need the flatter trajectory or require the extra oomph for dangerous game I don't think it's worth it. I would say the 30-06 has a greater variety of bullet weights over the 308 and the edge slightly in energy but not enough for game to care. As stated put a good bullet where it counts in a suitable calibre and the animal will drop. Get a rifle that fits and you enjoy shooting and getting accurate enough to put it where it counts is more important than a few fps or couple of inch drop at a given distance. Edited to add if you want to go after brown bear borrow a rifle, black bear and moose aren't hard to kill with 308 or 30-06 at realistic ranges.

Edited January 9, 2019 by gazjon5

[Deker 3,478]

13 hours ago, Max Caysey said:

Again thank you for your replies.

 

All the riffle hunters I know all own multiple rifles. Ranging from 243 up to 9.3x63... And one who has a 458Win.mag for big game hunting in Africa. When I have talked to them, they pretty much say, buy multiple cheap rifles. I know in Denmark the 6.5x55 is a real popular deer cartridge.

However, I get more enjoyment out of sports and hunting, when I have the "right" equipment in my hand. I very much go for certain high quality brands and models. Not that I'm snobbish, but I do very much care about what brands I do use. Same in golf, where I only play Titleist if that tells you anything.. Also, I know I wont be able to afford more than one really nice rifle, which I would be much happier taking out that multiple cheap/poor quality rifles. That's why I'm looking to get as much out of a single rifle and understand the pros and cons of different options.

Now the "easy" choice would just to go with the 30.06, but If its a poor fit for a 20" barrel, kicks too much, has an oversized muzzle flash, or destroys too much meat when shooting roe, then maybe its not a good option. Legally, the .308W comply with all north European game, however the muzzle velocity loss from a 20" vs 24" (which most ballistics I've seen run on), might mean that the range at which I can safely shoot some of the larger deer might be impaired - which again talks to using the 30.06. This is simply due to the around 200j loss from 24" to 20" rifle...

I know I'm probably overthinking it way to much... I tend to do that sometime, but I just want to make as informed decision as possible - and when ever I do go and talk to locals, the more I know, the better questions I'm able to ask!

So yes, I'm probably looking for that perfect combination... and I'm probably overthinking it way too much...

 

Thanks again!

The RIGHT equipment is NOT a 1 gun solution!

[Max Caysey 6]

11 hours ago, Deker said:

The RIGHT equipment is NOT a 1 gun solution!

Good point... What I was trying to do with this inquiry, is to gain as many points of view as possible so I can by the "best" rifle for my needs. It would seem that both .308W and 30.06 will do the job of hunting all north European game. Now the question is simply which caliber, fits that Sako Bavarian Carbine the best... considering its barrel length and weight.

But True... I would love to have many rifles, just as I would love to have Holland and Holland Side by side...

[Alsone 789]

On 08/01/2019 at 23:23, walshie said:

Serious question, if he'd asked if he should choose a 30-06 or a 300WM, would you have plucked yet another calibre out of the air? I'm a fan of 300WM, but that isn't what he asked is all I'm saying.

Wikipedia is not always your friend. 

Without wanting to divert the OP too much, it's not just based on Wikipedia, 300WM is a step up from either of the other two. I didn't know the OP was going to be shooting at relatively close range, which makes the other 2 more suitable choices.

On 09/01/2019 at 00:04, Underdog said:

I love 300winmag too but the op never inquired of it and just for the record Alsone, 300 win mag kills large game no differently than the cartridges inquired about by the OP!

300 win mag is a step up from the other two. 
 

Good analysis here: https://www.snipercountry.com/300-win-mag-vs-308/

[Underdog 2,337]

Oh for goodness sake.

Tell me Alsone, have you actually hunted large game with centerfires rifles?

[Deker 3,478]

On ‎10‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 01:28, Max Caysey said:

Good point... What I was trying to do with this inquiry, is to gain as many points of view as possible so I can by the "best" rifle for my needs. It would seem that both .308W and 30.06 will do the job of hunting all north European game. Now the question is simply which caliber, fits that Sako Bavarian Carbine the best... considering its barrel length and weight.

But True... I would love to have many rifles, just as I would love to have Holland and Holland Side by side...

You can't have it all ways, the BEST equipment is several guns/calibres, otherwise you are talking the BEST COMPROMISE.  Why do you think everyone else you talk to says......All the riffle hunters I know all own multiple rifles. Ranging from 243 up to 9.3x63... And one who has a 458Win.mag for big game hunting in Africa. When I have talked to them, they pretty much say, buy multiple cheap rifles.

[Alsone 789]

23 hours ago, Underdog said:

Oh for goodness sake.

Tell me Alsone, have you actually hunted large game with centerfires rifles?

Have you shot bears with .308? Even if so, was it wise is a better question. Lets agree to disagree. There's always going to be a compromise with such a spread of species. 300wm would have been a good consideration as a compromise calibre if the deer were being shot at long range. .308 is not always the answer to everything. In the UK we tend to use a very limited range of set calibres and a lot of this is down to the comparatively few species we shoot compared to other continents.

Deker is right. The best answer for deer + boar + dangerous game is always going to be 2 rifles. Anything that's going to stop a bear dead in it's tracks is going to be too powerful for deer except at long range. Anything that kils deer without excessive meat damage close in is not going to guarantee a 1 shot kill against large dangerous game such as bear. Wild boar are cuddly kittens compared to bears. Take the time to read about a few bear attacks. 

One thing the OP could consider, if not actually hunting bears but just seeking protection, is stick with a dedicated deer calibre rifle but carry a lack calibre handgun such as .44 magnum or 500 magnum, local laws permitting.