Blackbriar 8,569 Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, BGD said: Well I was talking about what happens if the bill doesn't pass but of course there's a chance it will it's just not very likely when you look at the parliamentary arithmetic, the DUP have already come out and said they will be voting against the bill and the vast bulk of the "hard brexit" wing of the party will vote against it too leaving May having to find an almost impossible number of Labour rebels to prop her up. Even if she did manage that she would just be delaying the inevitable and further damaging the party, can you imagine the backlash from the party faithful who overwhelmingly oppose the deal if she forces it through with Labour votes? Anything could happen and if there's one thing we've been able to rely on recently it's May's ability to wriggle out of situations that everyone thought would be the end of her but I just don't see a path out of if for her this time TBH. Remember the full legal advice is going to be published tomorrow too, if the government thought it would make MPs more likely to vote for the deal I doubt they would have gone to such lengths to block it being published... Welcome back mate, by the way ! What's got me comcerned is how many of the hard-Brexiteers will actually go through a lobby that will effectively be signing their own PM's death warrant, pave a way for a no-deal Brexit and possibly open the door of Downing Street to Comrade no.1 ? All in one fell swoop ! That would be the mother of all own goals ! What this has come down to is a stare out contest............were just waiting to see who blinks first. I agree that her deal is very unlikely to get through.........but never say never - especially about a PM who's as slippery as they come. (My prediction - she'll lose narrowly but have a convenient epiphany, and decide that the only way to move forward is a second referendum.) 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lenmcharristar said: Anno but how can they get in if nobody votes? There should be a none of the above on the box I can agree with that but what is the probability of no one participating? 7 minutes ago, Blackbriar said: My prediction - she'll lose narrowly but have a convenient epiphany, and decide that the only way to move forward is a second referendum. I currently concur with that. This clusterf*ck has reached the point where the only way out for the MP's is a second referendum, IMHO. What a f*ck*ng mess. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lenmcharristar 9,761 Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, ChrisJones said: I can agree with that but what is the probability of no one participating? I currently concur with that. This clusterf*ck has reached the point where the only way out for the MP's is a second referendum, IMHO. What a f*ck*ng mess. Yes but it should be “do we leave with no deal or take this deal?” Not leave or stay 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, Blackbriar said: Welcome back mate, by the way ! What's got me comcerned is how many of the hard-Brexiteers will actually go through a lobby that will effectively be signing their own PM's death warrant, pave a way for a no-deal Brexit and possibly open the door of Downing Street to Comrade no.1 ? All in one fell swoop ! That would be the mother of all own goals ! What this has come down to is a stare out contest............were just waiting to see who blinks first. I agree that her deal is very unlikely to get through.........but never say never - especially about a PM who's as slippery as they come. (My prediction - she'll lose narrowly but have a convenient epiphany, and decide that the only way to move forward is a second referendum.) Cheers pal I could actually see your prediction happening too TBH and from a purely party political perspective in a way that could be the best outcome for Labour, it solves the internal argument over a second referendum while placing the blame squarely on May's shoulders and would also really piss off the Tory base. They could be out of power for a generation as a result of a stich up like that. I really can't see any way out of this that doesn't seriously damage May personally and the party as a whole. They should have got rid of her a long time ago... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Lenmcharristar said: Yes but it should be “do we leave with no deal or take this deal?” Not leave or stay I agree. Vote out means out. It shouldn't be a case of deal or no deal it should be a case of bowing to the wishes of the electorate, not using the media as a propaganda wing to limit the fall out from it. The result stands but with such a close margin whoever won was going to p*ss off roughly half of the population and I doubt that if Britain had voted to remain by 51% the leavers would have stuck by that either. Britains got a lot of issues it needs to deal with. This should be a case of looking at those issues and restructuring the power base to tackle the wishes of the electorate. What they've done is cut the cord without any attempt to tackle what comes next and are now publically floundering with a highly visible display of incompetence. Anything they do makes that look like they're out of their depth and the sh*t simply stacks higher with every passing news cycle. Honouring the wishes of the electorate would have been a great way to make drastic changes to embrace independence but instead, they've opted to stick with the status quo. The status quo is the reason these problems are exacerbated in the first place. Personally, I had no vote in this. I've been out of the country too long and it wouldn't be right to vote on it if I could but I was in favour of leaving on the basis that the EU isn't accountable to the average voter, and that's important to me. It's one of a huge stack of reasons but still valid. So I left Britain for good as I wasn't willing to do it anymore. Anyone that is pro-EU can probably post chapter and verse the reasons to remain in the union and I'm sure they're valid but being governed by a committee that is unaccountable to me and my vote is a hard limit. Liberty is very important to me. Given the option to completely restructure the way Britain interacts with the world should be a huge priority. A clean slate would give you the option to improve the situation of everyone in the United Kingdom if done correctly but instead of embracing the future with optimism the entire process has been bogged down with just how bad everything is going to be. Even the basics like increasing incentives for business to move to Britain to create jobs has been overlooked with the doom and gloom of food and medicine shortages as the same myopic individuals try to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results. I'm clearly prattling on at this point but even I as a security guard can see ways to make this work so what does that say about the large group of politicians that can't? I'm sure we could all hash out ideas that would benefit post-Brexit Britain from workable to absurd but the sad fact is here is that we could find a way that the majority of us could agree on and the fact that our elected representatives can't is even more of reason to work within the system to change it rather than step away completely. To all those thinking of checking out. Don't. Your opinions do matter and if you choose not to exercise your rights, as you're well within your right to, the system will get worse over time. Victory is temporary. Defeat is permanent. Now is not the time roll over. Edited December 4, 2018 by ChrisJones Typo 5 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mackem 26,357 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Second referendum and I am moving to Canada Britain will no longer be a democracy brexit means exit. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,763 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 The whole system needs to be burnt down so everyone can lose their fear and rebuild. This one is totally disillusioning. I have faith in our lawmakers and bureaucrats total ineptitude! It's happening... 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,763 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 16 hours ago, steve66 said: Farage has quit ukip, not that it matters , wonder if we'll see a new party emerge Are these guys the new UKIP? Democrats and Veterans Party Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackbriar 8,569 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 33 minutes ago, Born Hunter said: Are these guys the new UKIP? Democrats and Veterans Party I'm in and I'll be spreading the word ! (The leader, John Rees-Evans, is old UKIP - he stood for leader a year or two ago.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lurcherman 887 13,123 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Whys tommy so quiet these days realised no ones buying into his zionist jewish agenda 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steve66 3,449 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Born Hunter said: Are these guys the new UKIP? Democrats and Veterans Party to be honest ive never heard of them Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lenmcharristar 9,761 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 The word democrat rings alarm bells, just ripe for for a take over from the lefty liberals Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,763 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Lenmcharristar said: The word democrat rings alarm bells, just ripe for for a take over from the lefty liberals What the f**k..... If you have a problem with 'democracy' or people who believe in it, otherwise known as 'democrats', you're really gonna struggle with any argument for Brexit. lol I highly doubt globalists/liberals are going to be attracted to a nationalist party just because of the word 'democrat'. lol Edited December 5, 2018 by Born Hunter 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, Born Hunter said: What the f**k..... If you have a problem with 'democracy' or people who believe in it, otherwise known as 'democrats', you're really gonna struggle with any argument for Brexit. lol I highly doubt globalists/liberals are going to be attracted to a nationalist party just because of the word 'democrat'. lol I'm sure the last time you brought up the DVP someone (maybe Len again) got triggered by the word democrat. Assume it's because of the Democratic Party in America and while that party is terrible I think giving up on the entire concept of democracy just because they named themselves after it is a bit much really Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,763 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, BGD said: I'm sure the last time you brought up the DVP someone (maybe Len again) got triggered by the word democrat. Assume it's because of the Democratic Party in America and while that party is terrible I think giving up on the entire concept of democracy just because they named themselves after it is a bit much really It saddens me that words like liberal and democrat are now just synonyms for gay lefties. lol They used to be the bedrock of Western society. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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