Brexit

[Born Hunter 17,775]

1 minute ago, Francie said:

Haha I just joined on April fool

[Born Hunter 17,775]

Just want to say though. I absolutely believe that over the next 50 years the EU will push for military integration and a supreme command, which is essential for them to operate properly as a political power. That was an absolute red line for me and given how entwined we are already it would become more and more difficult to resist as time goes on.

[jukel123 8,184]

13 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

Just want to say though. I absolutely believe that over the next 50 years the EU will push for military integration and a supreme command, which is essential for them to operate properly as a political power. That was an absolute red line for me and given how entwined we are already it would become more and more difficult to resist as time goes on.

I agree Born, reinventing the wheel. We already have NATO why would they harbour ambitions to become a political and military force? Bonkers!

[Born Hunter 17,775]

35 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

I agree Born, reinventing the wheel. We already have NATO why would they harbour ambitions to become a political and military force? Bonkers!

POWER! lol

Genuinely though, it's an essential part of being a legit political power. If you can't command/organise your own military then you can't 'protect' your interests. NATO has it's own interests and objectives, largely influenced by the US.

[WILF 47,061]

As in WW2 Central Europe knows that in order to be as powerful as China and the USA it HAS to push East.....all of the mineral resources in massive amounts are east.

That means conflict with Russia and for that they will need massive military might.

It don’t take any working out where their ambitions lay, Putin knows it too hence his invasion of the Ukrain to put a buffer before his border.

[Born Hunter 17,775]

1 minute ago, WILF said:

As in WW2 Central Europe knows that in order to be as powerful as China and the USA it HAS to push East.....all of the mineral resources in massive amounts are east.

That means conflict with Russia and for that they will need massive military might.

It don’t take any working out where their ambitions lay, Putin knows it too hence his invasion of the Ukrain to put a buffer before his border.

Be a much easier sell these days than 10 years ago too. Isolationist rhetoric from the US (US protection ain't so certain anymore), Brexit (no longer an annoying UK veto on integration), weakened European defence budgets (a single integrated force is mightier than the sum of the parts), rising tensions between major international powers (the threat is there).

I'm certain it's coming. And fair play, I'm all for it. Just not with us a part, but an ally!

[Born Hunter 17,775]

6 minutes ago, WILF said:

As in WW2 Central Europe knows that in order to be as powerful as China and the USA it HAS to push East.....all of the mineral resources in massive amounts are east.

That means conflict with Russia and for that they will need massive military might.

It don’t take any working out where their ambitions lay, Putin knows it too hence his invasion of the Ukrain to put a buffer before his border.

Also, don't the Chinese have a big strategy for reestablishing the 'silk road' trade routes? Trade routes NEED to be supported by hard military power! Trade agreements are very risky without a military insurance policy. That insurance would be a hell of a lot more potent underwritten by a sovereign EU force than it would the EU-27.

[WILF 47,061]

Born, can’t say that I’m all for it mate.....I have no wish to see British youngsters dying to make a Belgium business man a billionaire.

Our forces would be at the forefront because basically all the other armies in Europe ain’t worth a f**k compared to our chaps.

Not for me mate.

[WILF 47,061]

1 minute ago, Born Hunter said:

Also, don't the Chinese have a big strategy for reestablishing the 'silk road' trade routes? Trade routes NEED to be supported by hard military power! Trade agreements are very risky without a military insurance policy. That insurance would be a hell of a lot more potent underwritten by a sovereign EU force than it would the EU-27.

Millions of our young men died for these c**ts already, not one more I say.....f**k em!

[Born Hunter 17,775]

2 minutes ago, WILF said:

Born, can’t say that I’m all for it mate.....I have no wish to see British youngsters dying to make a Belgium business man a billionaire.

Our forces would be at the forefront because basically all the other armies in Europe ain’t worth a f**k compared to our chaps.

Not for me mate.

A strong neighbour is better than a weak one is my point. As an ally we would have the choice of whether or not our national interests are aligned with the EU's and hence whether or not our men and women should die to protect them. As a member of the EU and with a properly integrated military we would not.

[Born Hunter 17,775]

5 minutes ago, WILF said:

Millions of our young men died for these c**ts already, not one more I say.....f**k em!

Mate, I'm just pointing out why I believe the EU will move for a sovereign military. What I see as a statement of fact more than my personal opinion. If I wanted our forces in it I would have voted to that end. 

[WILF 47,061]

1 minute ago, Born Hunter said:

A strong neighbour is better than a weak one is my point. As an ally we would have the choice of whether or not our national interests are aligned with the EU's and hence whether or not our men and women should die to protect them. As a member of the EU and with a properly integrated military we would not.

Mate, I hear you but you are overlooking one vital fact......these fuckers can’t be trusted to wield a weapon as powerful as a combined military with the British army at the forefront.

Its like giving a 3 year old a loaded AK47.

If they can’t be trusted with democracy then they can’t be trusted with a massive military.......that’s a no brainer to me pal.

[Born Hunter 17,775]

2 minutes ago, WILF said:

Mate, I hear you but you are overlooking one vital fact......these fuckers can’t be trusted to wield a weapon as powerful as a combined military with the British army at the forefront.

Its like giving a 3 year old a loaded AK47.

If they can’t be trusted with democracy then they can’t be trusted with a massive military.......that’s a no brainer to me pal.

Totally agree! Hence it was a red line for me. But equally I don't believe for a minute they have the stomach for war so seeing them have their own unified sovereign force imo would make europe safer and give us a tidy buffer too.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Born Hunter

[bob.243 8,848]

[WILF 47,061]

History says European countries always over rate themselves from a military point of view......they get into it, their forces get rinsed out and we have to step in to bail the pricks out.

No mate, imho it’s a bad idea all round.

Give them the toys and these idiots will go off and play......and I don’t want out lads having to clean up......again!