Earthquakes in Blackpool

[Born Hunter 17,798]

3 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

So do we know for sure these mini quakes weren’t happening before they’d started?? 

I think there's a reasonable amount of evidence to conclude they were a result of fracking. I'm trusting the geoscientists that monitor this. I might be wrong, they might be wrong but I'm not going to pretend it's not true just because it would suit me.

[Greyman 28,876]

Raping the earth,,right how ? As a scientist would you say the earth has benefitted from mankind, ? Or is it worse from our delusions of godliness, we are fed lies Dailey and we are living a lie if we think the earth can survive even another thousand years of our meddling, the smart money is making steps into outer space and when the shit hits the fan it won't be us sitting in sir Richard Branson,s bus to Mars it will be the frackers and all the other rapists leaving the sinking ship to the likes of us who were encouraged to believe all the bullshit, it would be far more beneficial to the human species to remove all the plastic from the food chain than to split the earth for a couple of quids worth of gas, but as there is,nt enough money in it no one really seems that bothered, I don't need science or evidence to confirm what I can see with my own eye,s mate and in another 20/30 years you will realise it to, quick boffin question for you, re electric cars who,s carbon footprint is lower on the earth, my old nan who drove a ford Anglian, not very refined 25/30 to the gallon but lasted her for over 40 years or the modern Eco warrior that gets a new electric motor every three years, it,s all smoke and mirrors to line the pockets of the 1 percent and nothing else matters, sorry 

[Born Hunter 17,798]

Just now, Greyman said:

Raping the earth,,right how ? As a scientist would you say the earth has benefitted from mankind, ?

How do you even measure that? We're doing exactly what 'the Earth' designed us to do. The Earth isn't sentient and therefore doesn't give a shit one way or another. There's no master plan, strategy or goal of the Earth's..... it just is and does. The history of the Earth is one of destruction and mass extinction so I wouldn't like to try to judge our actions based on 'her' alleged philosophy. We're the ones who have goals, feelings and morality so we're the ones who will benefit or otherwise from our existence.

6 minutes ago, Greyman said:

the smart money is making steps into outer space  

I think it's inevitable and frankly the most likely saviour of the Earth. I honestly don't think we will find a global balance until it's too late. If we colonised and terraform other places we might be able to take the pressure off this, so far, unique ark of life.

But still I don't see how shale gas/fracking is raping anything???

10 minutes ago, Greyman said:

it would be far more beneficial to the human species to remove all the plastic from the food chain than to split the earth for a couple of quids worth of gas, but as there is,nt enough money in it no one really seems that bothered

It'd be more beneficial to the environment but without oil and gas production right now billions would die. So I totally disagree. This specific UK case has very changeable national benefits if not significant global ones. I've mentioned them all.

12 minutes ago, Greyman said:

I don't need science or evidence to confirm what I can see with my own eye,s mate and in another 20/30 years you will realise it to, quick boffin question for you, re electric cars who,s carbon footprint is lower on the earth, my old nan who drove a ford Anglian, not very refined 25/30 to the gallon but lasted her for over 40 years or the modern Eco warrior that gets a new electric motor every three years, it,s all smoke and mirrors to line the pockets of the 1 percent and nothing else matters, sorry 

What can you see with your own eyes? Specifically regarding the UK shale gas industy? So far all ibe got is "i dont trust them".

're the boffin question, what's your point exactly? It has nothing to do with this, probably valid, but still irrelevant.

[Arry 22,357]

Thought I'd repost this quote.

On 27/10/2018 at 13:26, stealthy1 said:

https://earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/earthquakes/recent_uk_events.html

 

[Born Hunter 17,798]

Recent images released by anti frackers of Blackpool...

Also, these people are suspiciously similar to the people claiming the Ebola outbreak was a government conspiracy to thin the herd couple years back. Common sense, common sense! 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Born Hunter

[Born Hunter 17,798]

4 minutes ago, Arry said:

Thought I'd repost this quote.

 

And a very valid link it is too. Keworth is next door to me and I have colleagues who used to work there. I notice the magnitude of the keworth 'quake' was bigger than all the Blackpool ones.... should I be concerned I didn't feel a damn thing? 

I think it's established there's a causal link. I can't deny that and won't unless the science suggests otherwise.

[Greyman 28,876]

11 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

How do you even measure that? We're doing exactly what 'the Earth' designed us to do. The Earth isn't sentient and therefore doesn't give a shit one way or another. There's no master plan, strategy or goal of the Earth's..... it just is and does. The history of the Earth is one of destruction and mass extinction so I wouldn't like to try to judge our actions based on 'her' alleged philosophy. We're the ones who have goals, feelings and morality so we're the ones who will benefit or otherwise from our existence.

I think it's inevitable and frankly the most likely saviour of the Earth. I honestly don't think we will find a global balance until it's too late. If we colonised and terraform other places we might be able to take the pressure off this, so far, unique ark of life.

But still I don't see how shale gas/fracking is raping anything???

It'd be more beneficial to the environment but without oil and gas production right now billions would die. So I totally disagree. This specific UK case has very changeable national benefits if not significant global ones. I've mentioned them all.

What can you see with your own eyes? Specifically regarding the UK shale gas industy? So far all ibe got is "i dont trust them".

're the boffin question, what's your point exactly? It has nothing to do with this, probably valid, but still irrelevant.

I,m not going to bother answering all your questions because I can see with my own eye,s you are totally sold into the system and with a few bits of paper you'll go along with what your told, the boffin question was to highlight another lie we are all pushing forward to make money for the one percent that electric vehicles are the saviour of the earth, but the making and dismantling of them is far more detrimental to the planet than an old petrol engine that could last for 40 years or more, as I said in 20/30 years when your still waiting for all these brilliant things to arrive and make your life a bowl of cherry,s while your still running along on your tread mill to pay for the people that told you it was a good ideal when you were young, you may remember this and say now I know why he was such a sceptical miserable old b*****d, but now I have to go out trick or treating with the kids so I,ll leave you to it

[Born Hunter 17,798]

2 minutes ago, Greyman said:

I,m not going to bother answering all your questions because I can see with my own eye,s you are totally sold into the system and with a few bits of paper you'll go along with what your told, the boffin question was to highlight another lie we are all pushing forward to make money for the one percent that electric vehicles are the saviour of the earth, but the making and dismantling of them is far more detrimental to the planet than an old petrol engine that could last for 40 years or more, as I said in 20/30 years when your still waiting for all these brilliant things to arrive and make your life a bowl of cherry,s while your still running along on your tread mill to pay for the people that told you it was a good ideal when you were young, you may remember this and say now I know why he was such a sceptical miserable old b*****d, but now I have to go out trick or treating with the kids so I,ll leave you to it

I'm sold into the system yet I defended your big cat study. 

Right'o, you're not getting the answer that fits your bias so this time I'm a sell out. 

I defend the scientific process, reason, evidence and logic. I don't defend flimsy common sense justifications when they can't be supported with the former.

You were the one that asked a shit ton of vaguely relevant questions which I humoured. The topic is fracking and you still can't suitably explain how it is even vaguely "raping the earth".

[Greyman 28,876]

Wow we are chewing our pencil top in anger are,nt we, in my eyes raping the planet for profit is going on all around us be it gas, oil or even contaminating the water supply, the people that do it usually live in there castles miles away from any of the unpleasantness that they cause, most if not all can fund paper to support there actions by bending the truth, I was,nt calling you  a sell out just pointing out you are sold into a system,I have a 30 year old child of my own that is a bachelor of science and has a string of letters behind her name and she is so sold into the system it scares me, it,s not an insult just an observation, I also don't need a scientific paper to prove my cat theory for me, but have to play to that tune so the less enlightened will believe it, oh and I really did go out trick or treating last night

[Born Hunter 17,798]

22 minutes ago, Greyman said:

Wow we are chewing our pencil top in anger are,nt we, in my eyes raping the planet for profit is going on all around us be it gas, oil or even contaminating the water supply, the people that do it usually live in there castles miles away from any of the unpleasantness that they cause, most if not all can fund paper to support there actions by bending the truth, I was,nt calling you  a sell out just pointing out you are sold into a system,I have a 30 year old child of my own that is a bachelor of science and has a string of letters behind her name and she is so sold into the system it scares me, it,s not an insult just an observation, I also don't need a scientific paper to prove my cat theory for me, but have to play to that tune so the less enlightened will believe it, oh and I really did go out trick or treating last night

 Mate, if I'm at all frustrated it's that you keep making claims that you won't substantiate. Like this raping the earth nonsense. How is fracking 'rape'? You keep repeating the claim and asking other vaguely relevant questions but never actually show why it's true. The 'damage' is to shale formations, that a naturally fractured anyway, and we're removing gas that serves utterly no purpose to the earths geology or ecosystems. How is it rape? It's just a sensationalist statement.

Our dumping plastic into the ocean, destroying unique ecosystems, the ever growing sprawl of intensive agriculture, some mining applications...... I'd agree all deserve the rather sensationalist use of the term 'raping the earth'. Because they're all unsustainable in their level of destruction and damage.

I understood what you meant regarding 'bought in to the system' but it's still horse shit. We're all biased, cant escape that, but you're implying I've lost objectivity. I don't for a minute think a piece of paper makes me an authority on shit all but it's habitually the only come back people like you have when you can't challenge or accept a factual discussion.

I've told everyone I'm not an authority on this, but I'll sure as shit challenge the bollocks so we can all get closer to a fair overview of this issue.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Born Hunter

[Born Hunter 17,798]

Just now, maxhardcore said:

Born what Grey is saying is that the Conglomorates on many levels are sucking the life out of Mother Earth.

Fracking is just another aspect of them destroying our life source for Money and intimately POWER.

There's SOME truth to that but it's way too simplistic a view of what is actually going on.

These companies only care about profits and hence environmentalism only hits their radar when it effects their profits. I agree with that. But the point folks like you miss is that IT IS on their radar and that's because we make it so. This whole fracking process wouldn't be so tentative if the environmentalists weren't being listened to. That's a good thing! What I'm interested in is the TRUTH about the risks and benefits because at the moment the biggest voices are just sensationalist scare mongering.

We also NEED energy. Can't escape that and also can't escape that our current energy infrastructure is fossil fuel based. That's nothing to do with profits and everything to do with technology and realism.

Because we need energy, it's a political weapon. Our energy supply is a national security concern, same as our economy. All this plays into things like this.

Again, I agree we as a global species are not behaving sustainable! We desperately need to change if we want to save some of the planets natural wonder and beauty! But much of this anti fracking talk is just nonsense and sensationalism bred out of this environmentalist movement. I can't see how fracking is raping anything. It's simply increasing the number of fractures in shale formation deep beneath the earth's surface to link up the naturally occurring fractures to remove the gas that has been trapped in their for millions of years. Gas which is better for the climate than other fossil fuels. Gas which will improve our energy security. Gas which will boost tax revenues. Gas which will provide economic growth and jobs.

I won't deny the risks Max. I completely accept the BGS findings. But I won't accept the sensationalism either.

[Greyman 28,876]

One more very crude and simple explanation mate' if I took hold of another person and started drilling the back out of them without there consent or concern for there well being, I would be a rapist, I see no difference in this, as the only people who are getting anything from it are those making the money, they are doing it against the will of the people that live with it and the shite left after its finished and if Mother Earth could speak I,m sure she would say no I,m not a willing participant, so in my very simple and possibly naive opinion the earth is being raped for money for a few, rather than for the benefit of the masses,  if they wanted to save us all money and be kind to the earth every new house being built anywere in the world should have a solar panelled roof and Windows and a wind turbine to make them totally in tune with the planet and off grid, but as no one would become rich from it we are trying new techniques that could have very detrimental effects on the planet and its occupants in years to come, unfortunetely in your world of science and facts there is no place for grey areas but as we all know real life is not just black and white, not trying to be offensive as I do genuinely respect your views on most things and look to you for answers, but just as I need to work in your world now and again you need to step out of it once in a while as well

[Born Hunter 17,798]

1 hour ago, Greyman said:

One more very crude and simple explanation mate' if I took hold of another person and started drilling the back out of them without there consent or concern for there well being, I would be a rapist, I see no difference in this, as the only people who are getting anything from it are those making the money, they are doing it against the will of the people that live with it 

Now you're being intentionally ignorant. I've listed the benefits beyond the profits multiple times. I can't make you read them. North Sea ops tax is f***ing extortionate, it's been an absolute cash cow for public spending. Not to mention the 100'000 jobs it supported (off the top of my head). Nah, no one will benefit.

It's not rape anymore than picking berries is cannibalism. Using the term 'rape' at all is a bloody stretch of semantics seeing as we're talking about a non sentient thing but I can accept the use if we consider it synonymous with unsustainable and careless damage. By your definition we are environmental criminals just by existing. It becomes ridiculous and meaningless! If I discharge a weapon at a rock, is that attempted murder?

Against the will of the people.... Prove it. Most people don't give a toss. A tiny minority are vocal. Bottom line, if folks care that much they had their chance at the ballot, seeing as all this started near 10 years ago.

1 hour ago, Greyman said:

unfortunetely in your world of science and facts there is no place for grey areas but as we all know real life is not just black and white, not trying to be offensive as I do genuinely respect your views on most things and look to you for answers, but just as I need to work in your world now and again you need to step out of it once in a while as well

If you understood what you were talking about regarding "my world" I'd maybe have more patience with this. The entire concept of a fact is one of never quite achieving black and white answers. It's a painful truth for any scientist. If you throw facts, evidence and reasoned logical debate out the window in favour of whatever you call 'grey areas' then we have nothing more than utter bollocks and whims. Simply put, how do we make intelligent decisions if we're to disclude actual data, facts, evidence, case studies, reason? Science isn't some top secret complex club, it's simply how we determine the truth, people do it by nature everyday without even realising it. lol

We're allowed to disagree on policy. It's completely feasible for two people presented and aware of the facts and knowledge to still comes to very different conclusions. I can't challenge that, just the reasoning and the facts being presented. There's no such thing as 'the right answer'. When I keep hearing shit like 40 quakes or no benefit or rape of the natural world blah blah I will elaborate on those statements and challenge the reasoning of any predictions from them.

Someone that responds with "you're naive", "a sell out" or "drone of the tory party" is pathetic and desperate.

Here's a question for the anti-frackers; what exactly are the bad consequences you're all worried about with UK fracking ops. There is a shit ton of case studies from around the world for evidence, so what's plausible here that concerns you so much? Let's leave the sensationalism behind us all and talk actual facts. I've told of some of the benefits, what's the plausible risk? Bear in mind the UK regs are written up with much of the industries mistakes in unregulated regions mitigated for, such as methane emissions and actual damaging seismic activity.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Born Hunter

[Greyman 28,876]

Think we,ll just disagree on this one, maybe you have to be an uneducated idiot to see the wrong in drilling holes under people's homes and pumping them full of toxic chemicals that will eventually find there way into our food chain and have clearly lead to an increase in tremors for the financial benefit of a tiny percentage of the planet, instead of fitting everyone's homes with free sustainable energy sources for the benefits of all and profits of none,

[Born Hunter 17,798]

4 minutes ago, Greyman said:

Think we,ll just disagree on this one, maybe you have to be an uneducated idiot to see the wrong in drilling holes under people's homes and pumping them full of toxic chemicals that will eventually find there way into our food chain and have clearly lead to an increase in tremors for the financial benefit of a tiny percentage of the planet, instead of fitting everyone's homes with free sustainable energy sources for the benefits of all and profits of none,

I'll not challenge any of that because it's going nowhere. 

I'll end with this, I too hope we find a sustainable global energy infrastructure soon and are able to stop and possibly by some miracle reverse the damage we have done to the environment. The world will be a poor desolate place when it's a concrete jungle and the natural wonders are in memory only.