Vitamins and minerals

[Black neck 15,850]

1 hour ago, sandymere said:

Carbohydrate in the Working Canine diet

It's pretty much accepted that different types of exercise and lifestyles require different feeding regimes i.e. a lap dog in a posh pad will need a markedly different diet to a sled dog during a long distance race. Most dogs will fall somewhere between these two extremes with working dogs, in particular, needing individual management of their diet to optimize performance.

Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So 85% of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. Studies have shown that dogs undergoing high intensity exercise were only replacing approximately 65% of their stores of glycogen in the first 24 hours when fed a normal meal an hour or more post exercise This can result in dogs undertaking high speed type work, such as lurchers or any breed that push their own personal limits, not fully replacing their energy stores by the next day. Fine for the once a week workers but this may well have a negative impact on those that work their dogs on a more regular basis.
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The process whereby glycogen is taken up by the dogs muscle cells is normally controlled by insulin but this is superseded while exercising and for approximately ½ an hour afterwards by another, faster, process, that could be described as direct uptake. As this process is so short acting, to utilize it, appropriate carbs need to be made available to maximize re-stocking of energy stores during or within half an hour of exercise. There is a reduced blood flow to the gastrointestinal system during exercise and for a period after but that does not mean that there is a complete cessation of digestion and appropriate carbs at this time will be digested and enter the blood stream, as glucose, to become available for this direct uptake system to utilize.

Previously I have advocated glucose, usually in drink form, as an appropriate form of carbs for this replacement but there are some problems with this. Simple sugars like glucose need to be diluted in a lot of water for digestion so water needs to be given at the same time or body fluids will be utilized when they are needed elsewhere but a stomach full of water soon after high intensity exercise may cause vomiting, the glucose/water effect may cause diarrhea and a sudden increase in glucose can cause a matching insulin high which in turn may lead to a reduction in blood glucose. As a dropping glucose will be counterproductive other alternatives have been tried to overcome this problem. Complex carbohydrates, i.e. cereal etc, are slow to break down and better suited to being part of the main meal as a baseline carbohydrate to replace the stores through the slower insulin process. Honey has been used in the past but it can have the same digestion problems as glucose plus it takes time and energy to be converted into glucose and may not be ready within the ½ hour time frame. Maltodextrins are sugars that fall between these two extremes they are easily/quickly absorbed, are less likely to case sudden rushes of glucose with the resultant insulin highs and are readily available.

Maltodextrin use in sporting dogs has been the subject of a number of studies, these seem to show dogs given a supplement prior to exercise had raised glucose levels during the exercise period, so glucose is available for direct uptake when needed; alternatively a supplement afterwards increased glucose levels within 15 minutes of administration. With both methods glycogen levels recovered significantly better during the following 24 hrs than those not receiving a supplement.

In conclusion the research suggests that a supplement of multodextrin may well increase work tolerance for sprint type exercise and improve recovery during the following 24 hours. Bearing in mind the above results and easy availability of maltodextrin type energy bars giving approximately one and a half grams per kilo of body weight to a hard working dog is defiantly worth considerin

Load of bollox

[C.green 3,229]

No matter what id allways think if my jack of all trades hunting dog needed supplements before running by that i mean things that dont help with recovery i wouldnt keep the dog.ive seen some dog given hellish stick and fed nothing more than wag and odd bit of cheap chicken or beef mince.

[Black neck 15,850]

15 minutes ago, C.green said:

No matter what id allways think if my jack of all trades hunting dog needed supplements before running by that i mean things that dont help with recovery i wouldnt keep the dog.ive seen some dog given hellish stick and fed nothing more than wag and odd bit of cheap chicken or beef mince.

Recover better wi the odd beans in um 

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

Baked beans?

[Black neck 15,850]

5 minutes ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

Baked beans?

Yes mate 

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

I didn't realise they were beneficial for dogs? Would you feed them every day?

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

Just quickly googled it

[Black neck 15,850]

3 minutes ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

Just quickly googled it

That's a load of taiters mate tomato prevents cramps loads feed tomato juice sardines in tomato all sorts 

Not saying feed a Lot of beans a spoonful for a night out and same after 

They reckon onions kill dogs but that's sacks an all

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

I'm always open to trying new things to benefit the dogs, I'll give them a try, thanks.

[two crows 3,342]

this has been an interesting topic to read with so many different views, worming and fleas aside, I believe if a dog is getting a proper balanced diet for the work it is doing it should not need any thing else, if it does your making it do to much simple as that, but each to there own. talking of fleas iv'e had nightmares this year I am now trying diatomaceous earth does any one use this and how do you rate it.

[low plains drifter 10,287]

7 hours ago, Black neck said:

Just out interest Ron how big do you need to be before you can put big in front of your name

Six foot six and twelve inches

[northern lad 2,292]

26 minutes ago, two crows said:

this has been an interesting topic to read with so many different views, worming and fleas aside, I believe if a dog is getting a proper balanced diet for the work it is doing it should not need any thing else, if it does your making it do to much simple as that, but each to there own. talking of fleas iv'e had nightmares this year I am now trying diatomaceous earth does any one use this and how do you rate it.

Never used it on the dogs but it stopped red mite on the chickens in its tracks when all else had failed...cracking stuff imo atb Dave 

[MikeyMJL 128]

I was lucky over the years to be able to source good quality flesh at good prices. Nice variety too. Over the last 6 months or so the prices locally have been whacked up because of the popularity, some their places stopped supplying. Was gutted, loyal customer for years and suddenly I was stuck. Lately I’ve got mine on red mills Racer and chicken mince. Looks too top on it. Used to be dead against biscuits, was surprised at how well he looks

[shaaark 10,693]

2 hours ago, low plains drifter said:

Six foot six and twelve inches

Seven foot six then, tall but not big

[Daniel cain 44,966]

2 hours ago, two crows said:

this has been an interesting topic to read with so many different views, worming and fleas aside, I believe if a dog is getting a proper balanced diet for the work it is doing it should not need any thing else, if it does your making it do to much simple as that, but each to there own. talking of fleas iv'e had nightmares this year I am now trying diatomaceous earth does any one use this and how do you rate it.

Got a terrier bitch here that is allergic to flea treatment (frontline liquid  etc) had some malenase wash from the vets, thought it was shit to be fair, so started using Damascus earth last few weeks, stopped her scratching like f**k all night and waking me up lol. Other Dogs get a little sprinkle over their food everyday.