The End Of Cash (Tangent Thread)

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Apologies for this. THL's glitchy format won't let me reply to the existing (and extremely interesting) currency thread. Here goes...

29 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

I'm not so confident...

I mean you are right but I'm not so sure how successful and therefor how accessible they can be.

That's a fair point, my friend. Digital currency is hands down the most convenient when you look at the number of transactions carried out globally. It's mandatory in most cases. With any other system it would take decades to establish a centralised form currency but from what I see daily there is no huge rush to fully embrace the digital age.

29 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

That all makes for a trustworthy currency.

Agreed. This side there is massive distrust of the fed as you know. Texas wants to return to the gold standard and is taking steps to do so. There is still a lot of depression era mentality around the stability of the global currency and that was harshly awoken when the market tanked ten years ago. Especially as the banking system was (still is) screwing over the proletariat and were essentially pardoned while citizens were getting jail time for stealing food. That left a sour taste in many mouths and why all eyes are on the Lone Star state to see how this develops. I'm extremely interested as career opportunities could mushroom if it works. The conservative distrust of anything government helps keep these things simmering.

29 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

The development of currency (any, cash or digital) as we know it has been instrumental in civilisation. Simply because under a barter economic system there are too many exchange rates to remember, which inhibits economic activity.

Again agreed. Out of curiosity how many places can you purchase items using precious metals in the UK? We have a local diner that will take pre-1964 junk silver and will adjust its prices to pre-1964 for those that wish to play along. A novelty perhaps but it shows the kind of willing to sidestep established practice in exchange for something else. Barter economies spring up whenever centralised systems fail. Almost immediately. It's almost like they're societies default setting as when it boils down to the bare essentials you simply cannot eat money.

 

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Can a form of physical (cash) currency develop independent of some sort of centralisation? I accept digital currencies are at that point, I'm just not sure cash can be? Specifically, specifically given that there is little demand for an alternative to the digital pound sterling.

Prior to the EU if you want to travel from Britain to Spain, then to France, and back to Britain you had to exchange sterling to pesetas, then pesetas to francs, and then whatever was left back to sterling. This would be no different in the sense that while the centralised system is extremely convenient it's not mandatory.

Personally, I believe that the viability of such a project will depend on the number of people that would want to transact outside the established norms. I think most of us here have lived in a society that pre-dated digital currency and mobile phones. We managed and I think it's only a stretch of the imagination for those that are so immersed in the technology that they cannot see the proverbial wood for the trees. You can still buy pretty much anything in Appalachia with corn likker!

[liP 700]

After seeing what powers the CSA have I'd never like to see digital  currency  come in to effect  ,my work buddy looks fecked ..

 

[Born Hunter 17,832]

2 hours ago, ChrisJones said:

Prior to the EU if you want to travel from Britain to Spain, then to France, and back to Britain you had to exchange sterling to pesetas, then pesetas to francs, and then whatever was left back to sterling. 

Having another currency wouldnt complicate matters too much i agree. An exchange rate would exist through market trading and we would go on with a minor inconvenience if we so wanted it. My real concern is whether society could ever realistically get a new cash currency to the stage of even having to worry about exchange rates.

2 hours ago, ChrisJones said:

Personally, I believe that the viability of such a project will depend on the number of people that would want to transact outside the established norms. I think most of us here have lived in a society that pre-dated digital currency and mobile phones.

I think that's the crux of my scepticism! In a society that has, by choice, almost completely moved away from cash currency, leading to the government ending support for cash and therefore the markets trust and value in it ending; then how can another viable cash currency come about?

There will certainly be bartering but it is extremely limited in its economic potential. The majority of the economy would not embrace it because the majority of the economy already have a satisfactory currency, the digital pound. Same applies to a actual alternative cash currency, even if the problem of fraud can be sufficiently prevented.

The reality, to my mind, is that if I wanted to embrace a new cash currency and avoid the digital pound, I'd have virtually no where to spend it.

In the absence of a government forcing the economy to accept a currency, you need the economy to willingly do so and when they have already chosen a more convenient alternative I just think you're pissing into the wind, so to speak. LOL

[Born Hunter 17,832]

It'll be interesting to see if crypto-currencies ever manage to function comprehensively and dominantly as money, rather than simply as a comodity. It'll be an interesting study into how free currencies can evolve naturally, even if they are digital.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

5 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

My real concern is whether society could ever realistically get a new cash currency to the stage of even having to worry about exchange rates.

That's a tough one I agree. Saying that we've seen it happen with actual gold, silver, and copper coins transferred into less valuable metals. The paper representation of money in the form of currency and cheques and now the evolution into digital currency with electronic transfers and cryptocurrency. Despite this, there is still the age-old markets for gold and silver. What an emerging cash currency would like I don't know but I don't see digital as the be all and end all. Is it just a stage in the evolution of money?

12 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

I think that's the crux of my scepticism! In a society that has, by choice, almost completely moved away from cash currency, leading to the government ending support for cash and therefore the markets trust and value in it ending; then how can another viable cash currency come about?

The currently accepted system would either have to fail or in the case of the US, there are enough people resistant to the new way that they cannot completely rid the country of the old way. IMHO this is why the convenience aspect is pushed first an foremost and the amount of cybercrime and fraud is deliberately downplayed in favour of convenience. Look at how many people no longer value privacy. We cannot look at that and say the push for complete transparency hasn't be orchestrated for the best part of a couple of decades. We've gone from private transactions with valuable material to very public and traceable transactions in the digital realm. If people weren't okay with that through conditioning the market wouldn't adopt it.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

17 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

There will certainly be bartering but it is extremely limited in its economic potential. The majority of the economy would not embrace it because the majority of the economy already have a satisfactory currency, the digital pound. Same applies to a actual alternative cash currency, even if the problem of fraud can be sufficiently prevented. 

Bartering is extremely limited but if you're in a situation where a bartering economy has sprung up it won't matter. You're trading something for food it means the level of civil unrest is beyond normal. Any representation of currency at this point could be worthless. You're down to the bare basics.

19 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

The reality, to my mind, is that if I wanted to embrace a new cash currency and avoid the digital pound, I'd have virtually no where to spend it.

Agreed but you live in a market where that's a grim reality. You only have the one option. Granted I cannot go into McDonald's with a US silver eagle and expect a meal but I can do that at a local diner or pick up some ammunition at the local hardware store. This is what Texas is trying to spearhead by making alternative transactions mainstream. It might not supercede the digital dollar but it will offer an alternative to those that don't like being told what's best for them.

22 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

In the absence of a government forcing the economy to accept a currency, you need the economy to willingly do so and when they have already chosen a more convenient alternative I just think you're pissing into the wind, so to speak. LOL

Agreed but we're back to market forces. If you gave casino chips 20 years worth of positive press who knows?

[king 11,984]

33 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

It'll be interesting to see if crypto-currencies ever manage to function comprehensively and dominantly as money, rather than simply as a comodity. It'll be an interesting study into how free currencies can evolve naturally, even if they are digital.

crypto is the future i believe.for instance the quickest way to move £10k from america to the uk is by getting on a plane with the cash in a bag.

if that was done through a bank it would take a few days to clear over here.

with a certain crypto coin that money can be moved in 3 to 5 second's at a cost of 1p or less.

its definately going to go go digital.just like the cassette tape was replaced with the cd.

and it could be £10 or £10 millon pound being moved that fast.and the cost would remain the same 1p or less.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

1 minute ago, king said:

its definately going to go go digital.just like the cassette tape was replaced with the cd.

Agreed but for the music analogy vinyl now outsells digital downloads. Just sayin...

[king 11,984]

1 minute ago, ChrisJones said:

Agreed but for the music analogy vinyl now outsells digital downloads. Just sayin...

thats quite right chris.iv'e invested in crypto myself so am a firm believer.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Just now, king said:

thats quite right chris.iv'e invested in crypto myself so am a firm believer.

No worries at all mate. I'm sure it's going to boom further and make people a lot of money. I guess the crux of it is do you hold your wealth in that form indefinitely or do you take some out and diversify?

[king 11,984]

5 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

No worries at all mate. I'm sure it's going to boom further and make people a lot of money. I guess the crux of it is do you hold your wealth in that form indefinitely or do you take some out and diversify?

ive got sell order's set up at varying price point's as you know btc is the #1 coin at the moment so the choice is there either hold some btc or trade for fiat direct to the bank.

i will allways hold some of the coin's ive got now.but if a solid use case coin crop's up solving a real world issue and i believe in it i will invest in that.

[mackem 28,284]

51 minutes ago, king said:

crypto is the future i believe.

Guy last week local to me was sentenced and his POCA seizure included £1.25 million worth of bitcoins he had stored on a keepkey device (as well as gold,rolex's,gemstones and £263,000 in cash).

[king 11,984]

36 minutes ago, mackem said:

Guy last week local to me was sentenced and his POCA seizure included £1.25 million worth of bitcoins he had stored on a keepkey device (as well as gold,rolex's,gemstones and £263,000 in cash).

i bet his head is done right in mackem.that's a fair bit to lose 

[mackem 28,284]

1 minute ago, king said:

i bet his head is done right in mackem.that's a fair bit to lose 

He has plenty of time to contemplate his financial situation (10 years).