That’s it, Brexit is over

[ChrisJones 7,975]

4 minutes ago, maxhardcore said:

Hard Brexit ' soft Brexit it's all just sound bites 

 

Lets just get out lock stock and get on with standing on our own two feet in control of our own destiny and making Britain Great again .

If that means some of these all for themselfs and their family's politicians have to loose their jobs and handouts and get busy in the real world then so be it .

I agree with you Max but it seems that many in the cabinet are fighting that tooth and nail and no one really knows what they're doing. The American media is reporting that support for Brexit is wavering and that a second referendum is on the way. That's meaningless outside of Europe but it could see a drop in interest for American businesses to deal with British companies. Markets are fickle like that.

[dogmandont 9,821]

Just a small question for the panel. How would YOU go about sorting the border issues in NI?

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Just now, dogmandont said:

Just a small question for the panel. How would YOU go about sorting the border issues in NI?

The new border argument is a new one to me. I don't see the point in changing what seems to be working already. What is the consensus in Ireland?

[ChrisJones 7,975]

1 minute ago, maxhardcore said:

Oh they know what they are doing ' they dragging their feet blaming every little one of life's negatives on Brexit wanting a second vote so that they get their own way .

Its all about power and money and they don't want to loose a penny .

They don't care for the voting public it's all about them.

If we don't come out of Europe democracy is finished in Great Britain make no bones about it.

All those who have gave their lives for this Country in Wars and Conflicts will have done so for absoloutly nothing because we will be living in a Dictatorship .

I understand that Max but I can only see two possible outcomes at this timestamp.

1. Britain sucks it up and regains its national sovereignty. Predicted turbulence arrives while everyone adjusts.
2. Britain accepts that democracy doesn't matter and goes for another referendum. The status quo is maintained but the precedent is set that you can keep voting until you get the result that you want and that vote only has to reflect the majority of people that participate, to begin with.

The only way for this to be resolved is for the majority to come out and vote in elections. Democracy cannot exist if no one participates in its system. If apathy is allowed to be the majority then also all of those that gave their lives in wars and conflicts will have done so for absolutely nothing and with nothing to fear from the populous those that are in positions of power will continue to rule without having to answer to the boss.

Either way, you'll get the government you deserve.

[dogmandont 9,821]

6 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

The new border argument is a new one to me. I don't see the point in changing what seems to be working already. What is the consensus in Ireland?

It depends on what side of the fence you’re on Chris which has always been the case on a lot of issues in NI. On one hand the unionists don’t want a border in the Irish Sea which is understandable and on the other the nationalists don’t want a border between north and south which is understandable. Special status imo would have been the way forward as we already have that to a certain degree but as the tories are in bed with the DUP I guess that just under half the population of NI is just going to have to suck it up and take what ever hand they are dealt. How that goes down only time will tell as NI can be very volatile place.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

14 minutes ago, dogmandont said:

It depends on what side of the fence you’re on Chris which has always been the case on a lot of issues in NI. On one hand the unionists don’t want a border in the Irish Sea which is understandable and on the other the nationalists don’t want a border between north and south which is understandable. Special status imo would have been the way forward as we already have that to a certain degree but as the tories are in bed with the DUP I guess that just under half the population of NI is just going to have to suck it up and take what ever hand they are dealt. How that goes down only time will tell as NI can be very volatile place.

Understandable, mate. As an Englishman living in the colonies, I don't really have a solution to that problem although I'm utterly sure this is something that needs to be discussed between the people of the north and south as opposed to Brits weighing in on what would be best.

For me I support a borderless society providing the societies are following a political path that is mutually beneficial. I've stated on numerous occasions that Britain could fix its economic migrant situation by removing the incentives for people to head there. Specifically removing the welfare state which bleeds the public sector resources alienating the indigenous population for one where market forces attract movement for the purpose of labour and mutual prosperity.

I'm not too versed in the northern and southern Irish communities so I'm unsure as to how the flow of people is affected by work opportunities but I see any physical barrier in the same sovereign nation as the start of a bad thing given Ireland's history. Again I don't know how until it happens but at least on the surface removing the barrier has eased tensions since the late 90's.

Edited September 30, 2018 by ChrisJones
Typo

[mackem 26,449]

52 minutes ago, dogmandont said:

How would YOU go about sorting the border issues in NI?

The NI/SI lack of hard border has long been a favoured route for illegal immigrants into the mainland.

[dogmandont 9,821]

15 minutes ago, mackem said:

The NI/SI lack of hard border has long been a favoured route for illegal immigrants into the mainland.

I’d have thought the camps in Calais would have contradicted that a bit mackem. But if the the border issues aren’t properly sorted then yes it will become a massive problem. 

[Meece 1,957]

29 minutes ago, mackem said:

The NI/SI lack of hard border has long been a favoured route for illegal immigrants into the mainland.

It IS an open back door that illegals DO USE. The problem that I see in this is that the whole spectrum is so complicated that no one knows what is really going on. It took something like 40 years to get to this stage and it can't be undone in a few months. We will come out because to do so would be undemocratic and every discission from the parish council to General election would be open to challenges.  Total anarchy.  I don't see how it will happen that on A Monday morning we will all wake up to a bright new world where the country has time warped back to the days between the wars. And cartridges were one and six a box.

[steve66 3,451]

That's the issue for me , any tom dick or Abdul could cross into NI and claim asylum , for me the government needs a hard border 

 

 

[dogmandont 9,821]

1 minute ago, steve66 said:

That's the issue for me , any tom dick or Abdul could cross into NI and claim asylum , for me the government needs a hard border 

 

 

What like a trump style wall. . Because that’s the only way that that idea will actually work which believe me won’t be happening. Where as if we had of had special status the checks would have been done in the Irish Sea which stopped them getting to mainland uk. And any illegals that get into the north and realise they can’t get to the mainland would be handing themselves in and begging for flight back to the shithole they came from. .

[mackem 26,449]

2 hours ago, dogmandont said:

I’d have thought the camps in Calais would have contradicted that a bit mackem. But if the the border issues aren’t properly sorted then yes it will become a massive problem. 

No mate,no contradiction from calais,thats the hordes over there,the ones with savvy and a couple of quid do indeed and have done for years flown to Dublin and hop-skip-jumped their way to the mainland.

[Meece 1,957]

5 minutes ago, mackem said:

No mate,no contradiction from calais,thats the hordes over there,the ones with savvy and a couple of quid do indeed and have done for years flown to Dublin and hop-skip-jumped their way to the mainland.

when they get caught up with, One of the son in laws takes them back to the hole that they came from originally.  Sometimes it is the first country in Europe that they entered such as Italy of Greece.  Serves them right. They should have taken them back on a big boat to Libya Tripoli or somewhere. Why dont they want to stay in Ireland? 

[VOON 1,317]

3 hours ago, ChrisJones said:

Understandable, mate. As an Englishman living in the colonies, I don't really have a solution to that problem although I'm utterly sure this is something that needs to be discussed between the people of the north and south as opposed to Brits weighing in on what would be best.

For me I support a borderless society providing the societies are following a political path that is mutually beneficial. I've stated on numerous occasions that Britain could fix its economic migrant situation by removing the incentives for people to head there. Specifically removing the welfare state which bleeds the public sector resources alienating the indigenous population for one where market forces attract movement for the purpose of labour and mutual prosperity.

I'm not too versed in the northern and southern Irish communities so I'm unsure as to how the flow of people is affected by work opportunities but I see any physical barrier in the same sovereign nation as the start of a bad thing given Ireland's history. Again I don't know how until it happens but at least on the surface removing the barrier has eased tensions since the late 90's.

In a nutshell....

 

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/the-eu-is-not-responsible-for-your-blundering-lack-of-foresight-patrick-kielty-slams-boris-johnsons-brexit-plan-37366776.html

[ChrisJones 7,975]

21 hours ago, VOON said:

In a nutshell....

 

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/the-eu-is-not-responsible-for-your-blundering-lack-of-foresight-patrick-kielty-slams-boris-johnsons-brexit-plan-37366776.html

Thanks for that. It just cements that this is something for the Irish people to set up. Westminster should be as far away from the proceeds as possible.