COLLIE X GREYHOUNDS...ENDANGERED SPECIES...

[billhardy 2,342]

5 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

No , 

go again 

clarify what you meant with the words you used . 

There was a clear inference with that choice of phrase 

so please clarify what you meant 

 

With your iq work it out the conundrum his yours no clarity needed atb bill

[THE STIFFMEISTER 15,840]

I’m interested why you used that specific word 

 

[fatlad 250]

There is a lad with a mali cross near me always on a muzzle until it's in the field bred from good stock whole litter are the same yes good with teeth can't be trusted near other dogs was his words he also has a Hancock from Arthur done teeth since 11 months old, I saw his mates 2 from Mr Jones working cover and catching stuff yesterday like they said the mali cross was well socialized just the whole litter are unbalanced he said he would never have a mali cross again 3 years of problems was his words 

[bird 9,873]

1 hour ago, Balaur said:

I guess you got to find what you can live with. Our own individual experiences of different breeds can influence that choice in a prejudice way but that's life. I've had a dog from hancocks kubla and that  was enough to put me off ever owning a collie cross. Although I feel he was exceptional it's coloured my view I've seen a few other collie xs work. But nothing that warrants repeating that experience. Got myself a terrier blooded bitch which suits me down to the ground , I've always had a soft spot for the bully temperament and met some impressive dogs with great characters.  That's half the battle .I've found this to be true of myself anyways atb Joe. 

thats fair point , there no doubt about it, as a rabbiting lurcher  , collie xs  and more so 1x collie x grey are top job , ferreting  and not bad in the lamp. my old  dog Bryn 1x collie x grey  brill rabbit dog , great in the day, and had many 30s in the night . But pre ban if you wanted to step  up the game to foxes or big deer, there are not the x, good at what there bred for rabbits . there plenty of lurcher x lurchers out there from proven parents   doing the quarry yo may want , thats where i go for a lurcher for them jobs, ive always liked drop  pit in a lurcher, mine would do all quarry, i had 1/4 pit 3/4 grey in the 80s   he do rabbits and fox in a night, and didnt wreak the rabbits either , they not thick  pit xs   , i found them quite easy to train , ok not like colliex but not many lurchers are . my biggest  prob always been the collie x temp , it just dont suite my personality , i find them extreme  sensitive  and fookin manic  in temp , Bryn been a very hard long 11 years , bloody Buck  gsd x grey  simlar   sensitive  nature  i think he just copied  old Bryn , or its the herding type xs , there all clever type dogs and in my opinion  think to much about every thing  allways got a eye on you, they never really switch off that over time pisses you off well it does me, but as said thats just me , some people love the x, not for me , i learned the hard way def .

[Chid 6,519]

2 hours ago, bird said:

thats fair point , there no doubt about it, as a rabbiting lurcher  , collie xs  and more so 1x collie x grey are top job , ferreting  and not bad in the lamp. my old  dog Bryn 1x collie x grey  brill rabbit dog , great in the day, and had many 30s in the night . But pre ban if you wanted to step  up the game to foxes or big deer, there are not the x, good at what there bred for rabbits . there plenty of lurcher x lurchers out there from proven parents   doing the quarry yo may want , thats where i go for a lurcher for them jobs, ive always liked drop  pit in a lurcher, mine would do all quarry, i had 1/4 pit 3/4 grey in the 80s   he do rabbits and fox in a night, and didnt wreak the rabbits either , they not thick  pit xs   , i found them quite easy to train , ok not like colliex but not many lurchers are . my biggest  prob always been the collie x temp , it just dont suite my personality , i find them extreme  sensitive  and fookin manic  in temp , Bryn been a very hard long 11 years , bloody Buck  gsd x grey  simlar   sensitive  nature  i think he just copied  old Bryn , or its the herding type xs , there all clever type dogs and in my opinion  think to much about every thing  allways got a eye on you, they never really switch off that over time pisses you off well it does me, but as said thats just me , some people love the x, not for me , i learned the hard way def .

You waffle some tripe at times 

[Llywelyn the last 31]

I often read threads concerning collie crosses with a degree of confusion . More to do with the sometimes negative comments that relate to the border collie , and often mention is made of the far superior ,, Alsatian , Kelpie , ACD etc .

 

The negative comments make me question what experience the naysayers have of the Border collie and in most cases , I believe statements are based on some previosu negative comment , and not practical experience .

 

We run nearly a thousand ewes and if we were looking for a guaranteed working Animal , then I would not consider any of the others .. the exception perhaps being the Kelpie , but in truth its easier to find a good working border than any other breed .. especially in the UK . 

 

The correct lines and working type are bright , very bright capable of thinking for themselves and learning very quickly from experiences . They are brave … will face down bulls and bullocks and the most obstinate rams .. ok there are some that will not … but please remember that more borders are worked on stock in the Uk than any other ,, and the proportion of failures is less than say an ACD or a beardie . 

 

What then are the alternatives and how do they compare . 

 

The Beardie , a local farmer has a couple and suggests they serve him well , true working types , but these are far and few , and truthfully to source one would be some task . 

 

The Kelpie , a favourite of mine , I bred a litter of half cross pups last summer and 

Run a bitch from the litter at present , natural , with a great instinct . However whereas their numbers on farms have increased over the last 20 years , they are still quite a rarity , there are good ones and would be second to the Border in the Uk ,,, pretty much the same as in their native Australia .

 

The ACD , I could not find a working line of ACD’s … and they are few and far in their homeland as well ,, interested to hear if there are any ACD’s that will work as intended . But you would not buy one if your livelihood depended on it .

 

Alsatian , not really a stock dog anymore , hip problems etc . Ok if used for guard work , very bright . 

 

Belgian Malinois , I really like these dogs , in terms of appearance , again not a working cattle or sheep dog anymore , so not tested in that manner .

 

Huntaway … bloody big , and with a serious bark ,, might translate into a decent lurcher ,, however as a general purpose stock dog in the UK … limited 

 

 

The border Collie … from the right working lines , they have stamina , intelligence , are tough mentally and physically . And the most used stock dog in the world from Austaralia to Argentina and the UK to the US 

Farmers are rarely fanciers , and they select on working abilities alone , its an evolutionary thing , they pick the strongest and most purposeful for the work 

And its no coincidence that they reside on every continent in the world . 

 

All breeds and strains have their pluses and negatives , and no doubt there are dogs out there who can prove the above wrong , but generally !!!!! 

 

If I was looking for a dog to earn a living with as a shepherd / Stockhandler  then the Border is still number one … mind I do like the Kelpie !

 

[THE STIFFMEISTER 15,840]

Top post Llewelyn, very true and no nonsense 

people are always looking for the next big thing imho 

nothing wrong with a proper collie greyhound, as for all this “ no good at big stuff” what a load of tosh 

collie typesvare here to stay , and they firmly have their place 

don’t know why people are mentioning foxing, that’s not the Job of the collie cross , but the Andrew Edwards dvds are impressive to see 

anyway must dash , I’ve got a litter of galgo x mallnois to look after . 

Its the way forward 

[THE STIFFMEISTER 15,840]

27 minutes ago, Llywelyn the last said:

I often read threads concerning collie crosses with a degree of confusion . More to do with the sometimes negative comments that relate to the border collie , and often mention is made of the far superior ,, Alsatian , Kelpie , ACD etc .

 

The negative comments make me question what experience the naysayers have of the Border collie and in most cases , I believe statements are based on some previosu negative comment , and not practical experience .

 

We run nearly a thousand ewes and if we were looking for a guaranteed working Animal , then I would not consider any of the others .. the exception perhaps being the Kelpie , but in truth its easier to find a good working border than any other breed .. especially in the UK . 

 

The correct lines and working type are bright , very bright capable of thinking for themselves and learning very quickly from experiences . They are brave … will face down bulls and bullocks and the most obstinate rams .. ok there are some that will not … but please remember that more borders are worked on stock in the Uk than any other ,, and the proportion of failures is less than say an ACD or a beardie . 

 

What then are the alternatives and how do they compare . 

 

The Beardie , a local farmer has a couple and suggests they serve him well , true working types , but these are far and few , and truthfully to source one would be some task . 

 

The Kelpie , a favourite of mine , I bred a litter of half cross pups last summer and 

Run a bitch from the litter at present , natural , with a great instinct . However whereas their numbers on farms have increased over the last 20 years , they are still quite a rarity , there are good ones and would be second to the Border in the Uk ,,, pretty much the same as in their native Australia .

 

The ACD , I could not find a working line of ACD’s … and they are few and far in their homeland as well ,, interested to hear if there are any ACD’s that will work as intended . But you would not buy one if your livelihood depended on it .

 

Alsatian , not really a stock dog anymore , hip problems etc . Ok if used for guard work , very bright . 

 

Belgian Malinois , I really like these dogs , in terms of appearance , again not a working cattle or sheep dog anymore , so not tested in that manner .

 

Huntaway … bloody big , and with a serious bark ,, might translate into a decent lurcher ,, however as a general purpose stock dog in the UK … limited 

 

 

The border Collie … from the right working lines , they have stamina , intelligence , are tough mentally and physically . And the most used stock dog in the world from Austaralia to Argentina and the UK to the US 

Farmers are rarely fanciers , and they select on working abilities alone , its an evolutionary thing , they pick the strongest and most purposeful for the work 

And its no coincidence that they reside on every continent in the world . 

 

All breeds and strains have their pluses and negatives , and no doubt there are dogs out there who can prove the above wrong , but generally !!!!! 

 

If I was looking for a dog to earn a living with as a shepherd / Stockhandler  then the Border is still number one … mind I do like the Kelpie !

 

That will be that apbt blood in the borders Llewelyn

if youvshould ever breed it , get a good proven bull terrier lined . 

[Allan P 1,150]

IMO I think we tend to generalize Lurchers to much, what ever breeding it is there are good examples and bad ones.

[Black neck 15,916]

3 minutes ago, Allan P said:

IMO I think we tend to generalize Lurchers to much, what ever breeding it is there are good examples and bad ones.

I think your flipping right 

[trenchfoot 4,243]

Never get a dog that has more brains than you have. 

[Black neck 15,916]

2 hours ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

Top post Llewelyn, very true and no nonsense 

people are always looking for the next big thing imho 

nothing wrong with a proper collie greyhound, as for all this “ no good at big stuff” what a load of tosh 

collie typesvare here to stay , and they firmly have their place 

don’t know why people are mentioning foxing, that’s not the Job of the collie cross , but the Andrew Edwards dvds are impressive to see 

anyway must dash , I’ve got a litter of galgo x mallnois to look after . 

Its the way forward 

Peddling b*****d 

[bird 9,873]

2 hours ago, Chid said:

You waffle some tripe at times 

not really , i am only going on the dogs ive had, some people  have  1x collie x grey thinks its best dog there ever had  , and would have another drop of a hat, thats ok  good   have them then , i just said they dont suit me, and  made that very clear, well i thought i did  read it a fookin again   .  ive said hunderd times on here  as you so call it  waffling on , that there great rabbit dog  prob near enough the best , but regards other quarry, there better lurchers out  there , my best dog was  lurcher x lurcher  90 odd % running dog  bit of collie in her ,  nothing wrong with bit in them  . of any type x  ive ever had in 30 years odd  i only go on my personal  experience with that dog , and what they done, and me getting  on with  that dog , if people had better time with them, great happy for them , do what keep you happy simple as that  mate .

[billhardy 2,342]

6 minutes ago, bird said:

not really , i am only going on the dogs ive had, some people  have  1x collie x grey thinks its best dog there ever had  , and would have another drop of a hat, thats ok  good   have them then , i just said they dont suit me, and  made that very clear, well i thought i did  read it a fookin again   .  ive said hunderd times on here  as you so call it  waffling on , that there great rabbit dog  prob near enough the best , but regards other quarry, there better lurchers out  there , my best dog was  lurcher x lurcher  90 odd % running dog  bit of collie in her ,  nothing wrong with bit in them  . of any type x  ive ever had in 30 years odd  i only go on my personal  experience with that dog , and what they done, and me getting  on with  that dog , if people had better time with them, great happy for them , do what keep you happy simple as that  mate .

That's a very fair honest post Ray some seem ta think those of us that waffle  on has some say  think we have no experience of the xs I have owned four  my bro four family  a good few lamping partners no end ,experience I qualify for that on the xs and the mixes f1 three quarters five eights three eights .thee are better with around a eighth and yes it's still there and sixteen , collie blood hangs in em same has most cur blood herders etc,now for f1 types this his where there's better than collies we all want the f1 what they bring to the jukel but here's the twist more often than not the f1 collie. Fails on mental strength where other xes succeed  phenotype they have it all but very few come with it both ends the European herders malls etc have it otherness they may not her a few ewes but who needs a jukel for that there hunting kill trait his subdued where prey drive his poor instincts for traits where trailing dogs are fast becoming the collies of today the traits that manifest in these jukels bred from his an unwanted trait infuriating to some we are in the modern hunting mans time  the young guns whant better than yesteryear I believe the majority of collie jukel keepers are not asking or needing  much from a jukel this I can say from ten collie greys only one liked teeth  one litter malli lurchers I know of four that relish teeth with out  the trait should I stay or should I go,out of all those curs eight were culled for the ability of not wanting to run conies  or when they pleased.atb bill

 

[bird 9,873]

Just now, W. Katchum said:

ray why did you get a first cross? An what did you expect it to be like when getting it?

 

 

good  answer that, suppose really i thought it be a alound type dog  do every thing  ,  they are good dogs  brill rabbit dogs  good wind and Bryn had very good pace for 1x, but over the years ive seen some cracking lurcher x lurcher  do as good as them or bit better . you remember  mate when i used go out with jim , who had snipe  i had some great nights out with him , we got  plenty of 30-50s a night , but old snipe  was saluki x grey x collie x grey , few more about like him simlar bred , seen few saluki x grey pit x grey   doing great jobs, there out there  as we no,  bit of collie good in lurcher   1/4 plenty , you dont need 1x , well thats what i think .